Hi there finally getting around to removing gearbox on a 1.2htp 06 plate to check clutch etc. Haynes manual states to drain first but I wondered if its required. Quite often find that you can bypass quite a few of the Haynes instructions. Gear box has flanges that the drive shaft connect to so cant see any way oil would come out. I was also going to try leaving the drive shafts connected at the wheel end as Haynes says to remove nearside one for extra working room if needed.

Many thanks 

Alasdair

You don't have to drain oil if you leave the drive flanges in. Can be hard to get driver's side one out/in past the various obstructions when removing and replacing box. But you could drain it by removing that flange once it's out if you found it tricky removing the box with it still on.

 

Driveshafts can stay in wheel bearings, but ensure you tie them up well out the way. I spent a while once not realising that the nearside shaft was getting in my way during refitting of the box, cos it had moved from where I had lodged it.

Yeah as @Breezy_Petesays, its not completely necessary, it just reduces the chance of you making a mess with the oil while you try to remove or once you have removed the box.

 

You could argue that draining the oil reduces the weight of the box too if you're lifting it manually but a couple of litres won't really make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.

5 minutes ago, HeavyMetalRich said:

Yeah as @Breezy_Petesays, its not completely necessary, it just reduces the chance of you making a mess with the oil while you try to remove or once you have removed the box.

 

You could argue that draining the oil reduces the weight of the box too if you're lifting it manually but a couple of litres won't really make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.

Many thanks as usual. Cant see oil coming out unless I turn it upside down and as said a couple of kilos not going to make much difference. My only problem will be how high to get the car jacked up to get the box out. I will be lifting it manually although I made a flat bed scissor lift trolley for a massive autobox in a toyota lucida so hoping I can get it underneath. Been meaning to get a larger trolley jack plus a couple of extra axle stands for extra safety anyway. Just removed starter motor and it was full of what looks very like whats left of the clutch disc which would explain the sudden loss of drive in all gears. So far everything has come off easily and all the bolts etc look like new. Just the drive shaft ones and gearbox to engine to go.

Alasdair

Take your time with the driveshaft screws, make sure you have full tool engagement in the heads, don't want to round any off.  

From memory, there are two bolts low down that go from engine side into bellhousing that need exhaust to get out of the way, and there's another midway up the rear side that comes from offside direction, may be hard to spot.

4 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Take your time with the driveshaft screws, make sure you have full tool engagement in the heads, don't want to round any off.  

From memory, there are two bolts low down that go from engine side into bellhousing that need exhaust to get out of the way, and there's another midway up the rear side that comes from offside direction, may be hard to spot.

Thanks for that. Have sprayed all bolts with release fluid and going to let them soak for a while. Was thinking of splitting exhaust at middle section or removing it as its a new front section a few weeks ago so should come off easily so I can lower engine more. Will have a look for the bolts you mention. There is always one thats hidden or a nightmare to get to. Going to do as much as I can today and Halfords tomorrow for higher jack etc. Taking it slow anyway as its -3C in the open building the cars in. Reckon I got till 3-30 this afternoon before the sun goes down behind the hill behind us and the temp drops too much for working.

Many thanks

Alasdair

Have you come across Kevin Albert Williams on youtube? Mobile clutch mechanic. This one must be very similar to yours: 

 

Thanks Pete, Will watch it later on. Sitting in front of fire to warm up. Gave up when I couldn't feel my hands anymore. Really need to make a door for the shed. Why do cars always break down in the cold or wet. 

Alasdair

5 minutes ago, Alasdair1 said:

Why do cars always break down in the cold or wet. 

Good question. My first clutch job was on  Jen's Fabia, between Christmas and New Year six or seven years back. Had a very low roofed open-ended garage to work in, with a flimsy tent bit across the front to keep the snow off cos the front of the car had to be outside a bit to have enough height. So much fun... 😆

3 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Good question. My first clutch job was on  Jen's Fabia, between Christmas and New Year six or seven years back. Had a very low roofed open-ended garage to work in, with a flimsy tent bit across the front to keep the snow off cos the front of the car had to be outside a bit to have enough height. So much fun... 😆

There also the opposite I also remember when we were on holiday in a caravan and I grounded my old volvo 940 and hit the cat and exhaust started blowing, ended up all day under the car in midsummer which was roasting realining the exhaust joints. I was ok cause I was in the shade of the car and kept cool apart from my bare feet which were sticking out. They got so sun burnt I couldn't walk for days. Spent hours just standing in the sea to get them to cool down. Still would put up with burnt feet rather than frostbite.

Alasdair

Hi there Managed to get gearbox out, well half way out and suspended so I could get to the clutch. Couple of problems like flange hitting metal plate between gearbox and engine. plus a few other bits catching on just about everything so decided to leave it half in car. should be able to change fork etc and give it a good clean. Good news is its dry with no contamination. Old clutch disc was very worn on gearbox side but didnt look like it was slipping. Once removed the reason the clutch failed instantly was obvious, flywheel side of disk had totalled itself and disintegrated . Bottom of bell housing was full of shredded disc. All that was left was metal and a few slightly polished rivets. Dont see any damage to flywheel so think it should be ok. At least it wasn't the gearbox. Going to fit new clutch tomorrow and see if I can get the box back in again which doesn't look easy but it came out so should go back in. Thanks for all the help with this one. Will post a pic of the old clutch if I can.

Alasdair

Yep, that offfside drive flange is a pain if left in.

 

 

Good work though, and glad the problem is clear and readily fixed.

When putting things back together, please make sure you put the correct bolt back in at the rear of the dogbone mount. 61mm long, not 65mm like some of the others between engine and gearbox. Too long and you dent/kill the steering rack.

12 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

When putting things back together, please make sure you put the correct bolt back in at the rear of the dogbone mount. 61mm long, not 65mm like some of the others between engine and gearbox. Too long and you dent/kill the steering rack.

Will double check. Think I left them in or marked them but will check. Recckon I might trim the plate between the box and the engine to clear the flange. It seems to be slightly proud at that point. Don't think I could get the flange off and then back on again once the box is in place. Its bad enough getting to the drive shaft/flange bolts.

Alasdair

5 minutes ago, Alasdair1 said:

Reckon I might trim the plate between the box and the engine to clear the flange.

Good thinking. 👍

Doubt that would have any downside.

8 minutes ago, Alasdair1 said:

Its bad enough getting to the drive shaft/flange bolts

Yep, I bought myself one of these in case I ever have to go there again: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314719915154

Alasdair1,

 

I've just done my clutch, it was a struggle to get the box in, however, it's one of those jobs that feels like it's never going to go, then all of a sudden, a Pixie sprinkles the magic dust, and hey Presto! it pops in, I found when trying to refit the gearbox, smear of copper-slip on the input shaft (a small amount, don't want it to contaminate the clutch friction surface) and a slight turn of the flywheel aids the Input shaft to slide into position easily, have a couple of bolts ready to pop in when aligned, hope it goes well for you, I did mine on my drive too, I know how your knuckles must be feeling 😱🤬

4 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Good thinking. 👍

Doubt that would have any downside.

Didn't faancy the angle grinder under car. Its petrol and the amount of releasol I was spraying reckon it wasnt a good idea. I had a thought that if I  pop the alignment dowels out of engine and put them in gearbox. That allowed me to drop metal plate enough to get flange in then had to fiddle with the plate while I aligned box and pop in it went eventually. I got a cross beam support that fits accross wings to raise engine plus used it to support gearbox so I could move it up and down. I would reccomend one. Got it of ebay for about £50-00. It looks the same as the sealey one but a lot cheaper.

4 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Yep, I bought myself one of these in case I ever have to go there again: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314719915154

I ended up adding every 3/8 extension bar I haave and just made it. Problem now is getting flange to match up with shaft.

Alasdair

Like your style with the dowels. 

I made a support beam. Clumsy affair but it did the job. Dumped it when I moved house recently, so if I ever need one again I think I'll invest in a 'real' one.

 

13 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Like your style with the dowels. 

I made a support beam. Clumsy affair but it did the job. Dumped it when I moved house recently, so if I ever need one again I think I'll invest in a 'real' one.

 

 This is the one I got. Worked a treat and for £50-00 it saved me a lot of hassle. Says it will support 500kg. Hopefully wont be using it mucch but its brilliant for changing engine support brackets etcc.

This is the one I have, it's a Godsend when you need it, £59 Ebay  purchase.

Edited 26 November, 20241 yr by Goz

2 hours ago, Goz said:

This is the one I have, it's a Godsend when you need it, £59 Ebay  purchase.

Yep thats the same as mine just in blue. Your right absolute godsend. Used both chains so I could raise and lower engine plus having gearbox suspended makes it a bit easier to wiggle into place and no chance of dropping it. Previous cars have had to use trolley jacks. Nightmare to get it right by yourself and to stop the gearbox falling off plus you need two to drop engine and support gearbox. This is the first FWD I have done myself. I do miss my rear wheel drive cars. 4 bolts propshaft off then a few more and gearbox out with loads of space. FWD are a nightmare especially the drive shafts and lack of space. Looking for a 4 post lift. There not that expensive second hand and reckon it would pay for itself in no time plus it means you can get to the underside for rust protection etc which up in Inverness kills cars very quickly. Have a project I need to start as I got given a MK1 Mazda Eunos 1.8 auto (MX5 import) which is in pretty good condition.

Alasdair

I'm in the process of removing the surface rust on the chassis of my 2011 L200, taking it back to almost bare metal, treating it with rust converter and then chassis black paint it, then Lanoguard everywhere, once that's done, I'm also replacing the rear tub, I bought another good tub  to go on (original donor vehicle was from England so hardly any rust), salt on the roads kills vehicles up here so quickly, it's crazy when you watch youtube videos of cars in America, no rust after 20/30 years on the road, I laugh when you hear them say "that was tight to get out/off" 😭 they should try working on some of the cars in Scotland, they'd quickly head back to USA.

3 hours ago, Goz said:

I'm in the process of removing the surface rust on the chassis of my 2011 L200, taking it back to almost bare metal, treating it with rust converter and then chassis black paint it, then Lanoguard everywhere, once that's done, I'm also replacing the rear tub, I bought another good tub  to go on (original donor vehicle was from England so hardly any rust), salt on the roads kills vehicles up here so quickly, it's crazy when you watch youtube videos of cars in America, no rust after 20/30 years on the road, I laugh when you hear them say "that was tight to get out/off" 😭 they should try working on some of the cars in Scotland, they'd quickly head back to USA.

Mine is an 06 but no rust at all apart from front wishbones which I have to replace at some point to. I think mine originally was devon/cornwall. Going to get it properly cleaned underneath and then Either dinitrol or lanoguard. Used to use waxoil but new stuff isnt quite the same. Have had good results with Bilt hamber hydrate 80 rust killer and was looking at their rustproofing  Dynax UB and Dynax UC. Will have to wait a bit as got a few other bits I neeed to do first. At least the clutch seems good now. Havent road tested it as still puting bits back on it. My son in law had an L200 and god it was bad for rust. Looked good as it was jacked up with massive off road tyres but absolutely rotten. I reckon it was used for hauling salt. He got rid of it as I don't think the tub was actually attached to the car anymore and bought a galvanised chassis LR110