Hi everyone,

Discovered (duh) that not all Fabia VRS have ESP (i.e. it is a

I don't quite understand the bit about not wanting to hear that it's not possible ... but ... it's not*.

TKW.

*Let's not quibble about the definition of "possible". It'd be cheaper to sell it and buy a new one with ESP factory fitted .....

Agreed - it would not be at all feasible to try and retrofit, if you want it order it.

In short you can't economically retro-fit it, as it requires sensors the non-ESP version does not have, and it is integrated with several engine/braking related bits such as the ABS and ECU systems.

It should be standard IMHO though, but then the base-cost would have to go up.

In short you can't economically retro-fit it, as it requires sensors the non-ESP version does not have, and it is integrated with several engine/braking related bits such as the ABS and ECU systems.

It should be standard IMHO though, but then the base-cost would have to go up.

Have you seen the debate on the Octy (A4) forum about whether the ASR is a good thing or not?

wouldn't you need to change the brake master cylinder also or does the fabia have 4 channel ABS already?? basically though it would cost way more than £400 to retrofit as you would need (i think) new hubs all round, all the required loom, the possible brake master cylinder, a new ABS ecu as the esp one does abs/esp/tc all in one, the different button on the dash and a load of sensors(esp uses i think 3 acceleration sensors amongst others and the cheapest one is about £100), steering angle sensors etc etc.

OK, point taken.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Why would you want ESP! If you need ESP on the road the plod would nick you for dangerous driving and you would not want it switched on for track use.

Why would I want ESP ?

Ever heard of skids, object avoidance, snow and ice ?

Also, presume you saw Jeremy Clackson in the Jag in Sweden (or somewhere).

US authorities are planning on making ESP mandatory on all new vehicles such is the effect it has in reducing accidents.

All the above are why I want ESP.

Why would you want ESP! If you need ESP on the road the plod would nick you for dangerous driving and you would not want it switched on for track use.

don't be such an idiot mate, if in 20 years of motoring ESP only ever cut in once then it would be money well spent as it could probably have saved your life.

i take it you have never had a car with esp and had to avoid a car at speed or at the last possible second with absolutely no warning?? esp is there as a last defence in case of emergencies.

out of interest do you have ABS on your car or is that also a waste of time and money that if you need it means that you are driving in such a manner that the plod would nick you for dangerous driving?

don't be such an idiot mate, if in 20 years of motoring ESP only ever cut in once then it would be money well spent as it could probably have saved your life.

i take it you have never had a car with esp and had to avoid a car at speed or at the last possible second with absolutely no warning?? esp is there as a last defence in case of emergencies.

out of interest do you have ABS on your car or is that also a waste of time and money that if you need it means that you are driving in such a manner that the plod would nick you for dangerous driving?

Same for airbags

i take it you have never had a car with esp and had to avoid a car at speed or at the last possible second with absolutely no warning?? esp is there as a last defence in case of emergencies.

I have without ESP or ASR :P I managed just fine thanks If you need ESP then fine, but please don't make it compulsory for everyone

Chris

I've not seen the ASR debate on the Audi site, but if it is anything like on this site Basically ASR is very restricted, it just cuts power, and it tends to do this both insufficiently & timed annoyingly if you need to pull out onto a road from say a T-junction at some pace.

ESP is vastly better. As for needing it - yes I've had a need for it a few times, once because there was standing water in a looking sweeping bend which I could not avoid (oncoming traffic, no way of slowing down sufficiently although I had a go up to the point just before hitting the water * during which point I was no longer on my brakes * ). The ESP kept the car pointing in the right direction by me holding the throttle steady and just steering where I wanted/needed to go. You could feel the car working both with the power & braking, and although a massive amount of water was ejected over the car, that was about it.

Another time was when a lorry decided to sweep sideways to overtake whilst I was still next to it. I had a car behind me + gap in front, very tight, with muddy side. The only choice I had was to floor it and with a wheel on the mud I managed to get past. The car behind me smoked his tyres doing an emergency stop, and the lorry barely missed him. Suffice to say the lorry was forced to stop - without ESP I would have only been able to brake hard & I would have been underneath and very dead.

More normal & sensible use would be hitting of unexpected snow/ice/diesel patch on the road.

If you don't need it because you've had extensive advanced training then great, but let's face it, based on the fog-light and/or side-light toting majority of drivers that fail to indicate, anticipate or have any consideration for anything/one else on the road, I'm glad I've got it :P

I have without ESP or ASR :P I managed just fine thanks

doesn't mean you will always be 100% on your guard and ready for such a situation unlike ESP which is never tired/annoyed/distracted. all i'm saying is even the best driver in the world can be distracted or have an off day and sods law dictates that that day is the day for an accident.

Oops, seem to have started something here !

Bengie, VW_RS and TKW have brought up some particularly pertinent points. Also, I'd forgotten the dreaded diesel - once put a car totally sideways on that stuff, so treacherous because it can affect you in the finest of conditions.

To the detractors of ESP - why do you think the US authorities are contemplating making ESP mandatory on all new cars in the US ?

Apparently, conservative estimates are that it would save hundreds (if not thousands) of lives evry year - not to mention the distress, costs saved in hospitals and rehab etc etc.

In a 'perfect' world we wouldn't need ESP i.e. people wouldn't take risks on pulling out on you, every car would be properly lit etc etc.

Unfortunately we have 'foglight' kids, tailgaters, mobile phone users, young idiots who seriously need to retake their tests (or have their testes removed), furry dice or CDs dangling, people late for work / tea and on and on ad infinitum

As Bengie so succinctly put, ESP is never tired / annoyed / distracted.

i dont think mine has ever needed to kick in but its there just incase and in my opinion its worth the money just for that reason

Yeah I remmeber Clarkson with the Jag on sheet ice on a slight incline...... ESP was very impressive.

Prior to the Jag being on the ice incline, Klaxon did two high speed runs on ice - one with ESP on, the other off. With ESP on he avoided three obstacles before the car 'went its own way'.

With ESP off he manged to avoid just one before the car became uncontrollable.

i totally agree in a perfect world we should need no electronic aids as every car would be perfectly maintained, never driven aggressively and every driver courteous and fully aware at all times. there would never be mud/diesel/oil/ice on the roads but sadly that ain't gonna happen :(

if my works van had esp i wouldn't have crashed it and that was down to a dear.

I've only twice been in a situation that ESP might have been capable of recovering :-

1) I demolished a Citroen ZX. ESP might have handled things differently, and sorted out the skid without leaving me at right angles to the road whilst the car-centred inertia still pointed in the same direction, taking the car off the road.

2) I came off a roundabout and hit a patch of wet diesel whilst still turning. I came off the power, and let the resultant slide take me slightly wider.

ESP should be seen as a passive safety defice imho, a'la airbags. Its not there to make up for driving competance inadequacies, but there to perhaps save your life should you end up in such a situation.

Pretty much my point; in neither of those cases did I anticipate, or do anything by commission, that would have caused a skid had the road not unexpectedly had a low grip patch on it.

thats exactly when i think ESP is at its best