what a sanctimonious, self righteous miserable ****** you sound in that post. grumpy by name eh?

i have owned maybe 10 cars and driven another 30 different vehicles over a total of maybe 500,000 miles or so and 8 years and in my limited experience ....

Amazing stats there - 63k a year average motoring

At 30 mph average that's 2,100 hours = 87.5 days per year Average just driving.

Do you find time to eat and sleep and work as well ?

Amazing stats there - 63k a year average motoring

At 30 mph average that's 2,100 hours = 87.5 days per year Average just driving.

Do you find time to eat and sleep and work as well ?

You obviously do if you had enough time on your hands to work that out :P

You obviously do if you had enough time on your hands to work that out :P

Correct.

Just that I'm 54, driving since 17.

1st job entailed quite a bit of driving. Ditto 2nd. 3rd job (18 years) private-hire driving at night i.e. the time you can get around. Admittedly the last five years my driving tailed off progressively as I tried to get out of the job.

And yet, in 37 years of driving I can only claim (estimate) to have done 750k.

One of my pet bugbears - another is people claiming to have had flu.

working on responsive repairs out of a van all day and on 24hr call out every 6th week + when i covered others on the rota for 3 1/2 years plus another 9 months of doing the same job whilst not on call out then the previous 5 years working on building sites being based anwhere in the south of england with 9 months of that being based 70 miles away having to drive there and back every day of the week aswell as a further 15 miles a day commuting within the area aswell as putting about 15k on my private car over the same 9 months.

its all well and good basing your figures at 30mph but i spent most of my travel time on motorways either very early in the morning or late at night so i defeintly was not doing 30mph.

over the first 4 years driving i put about 25k a year on my private car aswell as driving works vehicles all over the south of the country.

you say you have only done about 750k miles in 37 years yet 18 years of that were as a private hire driver?? thats an average of 20k a year as a cabbie, did you not get mch work?

on my personal cars alone i have covered around 15-20k a year whilst doing many mnay miles in works vehicles, my estimate of 500k was an estimate not a solid figure and was meant as more of a ceiling. what i should have said was 400-500k miles maybe.

you say you have only done about 750k miles in 37 years yet 18 years of that were as a private hire driver?? thats an average of 20k a year as a cabbie, did you not get mch work?.

It might be an average of 20k - but I did state only the last 18 years were as a private-hire driver.

I reckon, at peak, I was averaging 35k a year (probably for around 10 to 12 years and then it all went downhill.

Mine is a very conservative estimate (-:

i'd say it was a very conservative estimate myself, going on the figures of an average vehicle over 37 years driving a driver should cover around 500k according to 14-15k average so i would have thought many years as a cabbie should push that up quite a lot.

anywho back on topic

understeer is what makes you moan at your car and makes you buy a strut brace

over steer is what makes you moan at your car then buy a new one and have for a new lamp post.

torquesteer is when you have weedy little arms and cannot hold your steering wheel straight

what a sanctimonious, self righteous miserable ****** you sound in that post. grumpy by name eh?

i have owned maybe 10 cars and driven another 30 different vehicles over a total of maybe 500,000 miles or so and 8 years and in my limited experience i would say that a RWD car is much more of a handful to drive than anying else on the limit.

the cars i have owned have mostly been FWD but i have also owned RWD, part time 4WD and full time 4WD, they have been a mix of 4cyl, v6, N/A and turbo and the one i am driving mostly at the moent is a 4cyl turbo full time 4WD with a rear bias and although its quite a giggle its also a bit sketchy on the limit.

so what in your eyes is a "proper car"??

If I wanted to appear happy, I wouldn't be called Grumpy would I?

Look around you for your sense of humour, it seems to have escaped.

I never claimed to be the best driver in the world, but I manage.

I'm sure Tom hasn't taken any offence, so I don't know why you have.

Oh, and I have been driving for nearly 30 years ( and I am now really tired ) and have covered more miles than I can count, AND I have driven probably the alphabet of cars, from Alvis, to , errrr, not Zonda unfortunately.

I might sound sanctimonious, but don't forget, this is the internet, in real life I am lovely, although not as tall as I appear to be.

RWD is much more controllable and adjustable than FWD.

FWD you lose grip, all that is left is to reduce power straighten the wheel and then reapply. Not really a lot of options there are there?

RWD you have the option to apply more power, keep the power as is or decrease the power to adjust the slip angle to your liking.

It's all about control.

Emily, book yourself on a skid control day and learn what it feels like in isolation with very little of consequence to hit.

Lincolnshire police have a very good facility and excellent instructors. Stuff the track day at the moment, learn to control it in someone elses car first (if you really are that unsure).

Next. try and find a local RoSPA group and learn to drive "properly". If I was down your way I'd be happy to take you out to show you that safe doesn't mean "not fun". I'm sure Chris and Nick (amongst others) will back me up on that.

Next piece of advice (hey you did sort of ask), try and drive different types of car, learn what they "feel" like. Try karting.

If I wanted to appear happy, I wouldn't be called Grumpy would I?

Look around you for your sense of humour, it seems to have escaped.

I never claimed to be the best driver in the world, but I manage.

I'm sure Tom hasn't taken any offence, so I don't know why you have.

Oh, and I have been driving for nearly 30 years ( and I am now really tired ) and have covered more miles than I can count, AND I have driven probably the alphabet of cars, from Alvis, to , errrr, not Zonda unfortunately.

I might sound sanctimonious, but don't forget, this is the internet, in real life I am lovely, although not as tall as I appear to be.

He's like this Graham. Great reply mate:thumbup:

i'd much rather have a front wheel drive car any day:)

Get yourself down to Mazda or Nissan and try the RX or 350Z.

FWD is undoubtedly safer overall because it never does anything remotely surprising. In a RWD car if you're driving beyond the road conditions and perhaps not paying 100% attention you stand a very good chance of having an accident.

Basically RWD can behave in an unexpected manner if you're unused to it, FWD acts as you'd expect in virtually all situations.

FWD is undoubtedly safer overall because it never does anything remotely surprising. In a RWD car if you're driving beyond the road conditions and perhaps not paying 100% attention you stand a very good chance of having an accident.

Basically RWD can behave in an unexpected manner if you're unused to it, FWD acts as you'd expect in virtually all situations.

Depends on the car though. Whilst this is true of an un-aided RWD vehicle such as the S2000, something like the RX8 or or 350Z will refuse to be stupid with the electronic aids turned on.

When I had mine I tried on several occasions to "drift" with the ESP fully off and to help my understanding of what would happen if things went a little wrong.

On other occasions, I used to drive like a right tool, flooring it half way round roundabouts and throwing the car all over the place. The ESP makes you feel like a driving god and whilst I appreciate that a FWD understeery car is safer, its still easy to plough on into a kerb etc.

:( I want my Zed back :( Kitchens arent' this good.

FWD is "safer" because people's gut reaction when the car starts to slide is to lift off and/or brake which will lead to the car regaining grip (hopefully).

And yes, agree with what Jon says. If you can, spend a day in Don Palmer's company and he will coach you to be able to control your car on the limit where less is definitely more and feeling what's going on is key.

Has really transformed the way I drive

Chris

Whilst this is true of an un-aided RWD vehicle such as the S2000, something like the RX8 or or 350Z will refuse to be stupid with the electronic aids turned on.

Interestingly the Smart ESP seems to do absolutely nothing - I've had it sideways with the ESP ON!! I daren't turn it off until the roads get dryer and warmer

Chicken! :haha:

It's great fun with it off, live a little

Interestingly the Smart ESP seems to do absolutely nothing - I've had it sideways with the ESP ON!! I daren't turn it off until the roads get dryer and warmer

Is that ESP1 or ESP2 though ?

could this be the next drift king???

the legend lives on!

all i'd need to buy is a string vest and bobs your uncle!!

Way hay, that was my first car , but an older model and orange, did not steer at all, that's why it was retired into a wall! (by mistake)

Is that ESP1 or ESP2 though ?

I don't know. :confused:

I know the ESP system in all smarts was overhauled in about 2003/4 when they added the hill start assist etc. but I've no idea which is on the Roadie, or what the differences are.

Another option, Emily, if you can't get to a skid pan (though the weather seems to be too good currently) is to find a nice deserted car park late at night when it has snowed / is icy - and have a damned good play.

Also practise braking hard so you skid and then turning the wheels slightly and then taking the brake off - whoopee, and it saved my bacon a couple of times on really greasy roads (amazing how you turn the wheel far too much in a panic situation such as this).

So is drifting extreme oversteer?

No, drifting (done correctly, not as in the so-called "drift championships", which are just acting like @r$e$ in a controlled environment) is actually mild understeer. Seriously, a car in a true 4-wheel drift has a higher front tyre slip angle than rear.

Interestingly the Smart ESP seems to do absolutely nothing - I've had it sideways with the ESP ON!!

Check your handbook - it will probably point out that the stability program can't overcome the laws of physics (I know it says that in mine, and that it's true )...

Rob.

And yes, agree with what Jon says. If you can, spend a day in Don Palmer's company and he will coach you to be able to control your car.......Has really transformed the way I drive

Chris

So you've finally got those stabilisers off Chris, well done

So you've finally got those stabilisers off Chris, well done

I'm only qualified to take them off during the day and in the dry

Chris

He has some way to go on the road to deity though :haha:

But he is far far better than me :bowdown:

Get yourself down to Mazda or Nissan and try the RX or 350Z.

when i was doing my aprrenticeship one of our customers had a couple of rx5's, he did let me take one out for a spin:D (literally:) ) on a bit of waste land.... great fun.... to expensive for me tho!!!!

i've had a play in 7's before too, too damn fast for my liking, i would most definately end up dead if i owned one