17 minutes to get up to temp - slow?

[anewman]

Hoping I'm worried about nowt but wondering how long an average 1.3 spi would take to warm up? It took 15 minutes to get to the gap in the white line, then an extra 2 minutes to get up to the normal level. This is normal stop-start city driving from cold in the afternoon.

When driving slower (especially after a 70mph run), the temperature can fall to the gap in the white line, so it is not always as constant as I'd imagine it should be.

I'm just wondering if there's a problem, and if so any cure. Have renewed the thermostat.

If this is near-enough normal, I'll leave everything alone.

Thanks in advance.

[swedishskoda]

Must be something wrong here, mate?

I don't know about the 1.3 but even with a broken (fully open) thermostat my 1.6 felicia was halfways to normal after 5 mins or so.

Regretfully I've no ideas. Pure guesswork suggests e.g. sensor? water pump? New thermostat faulty?

Do you get any hot air through the heating system?

[anewman]

Hmmm must be colder in your country than the UK too.

I'd say the heater started feeling luke warm after about 7 mins but when up to temp was warm.

Things I have done recently (all with heater set full): -

Drained coolant

Flushed a few times

Used holt's speed flush for 30 miles

Flushed with hose in top of radiator hose and thermostat housing

New genuine standard thermostat (think it says 88 celcius) with arrow pointing to sky and gasket

50/50 g12+/deionised water, ran with cap off, squeezed hoses, and ran the engine at fast idle for longer than I'd care to remember

Small dribble from top radiator hose, tightened hose clip and not re-occurred.

Cleaned temperature sender with electrical contact cleaner and re-seated connector a few times.

Things I could probably do include:

Flushing heater matrix

Back flush radiator

Re-checking new thermostat (boil in pan + thermometer)

Replacing temperature sensor

Replace all coolant hoses and clips

Get a garage to pressure test the system

[swedishskoda]

If your heater is slow too then it sounds to me as if the water constantly circulates through the radiator which of course affects the warming-up time. What's strange, however, is that the needle drops when you slow down from highway speed - ought to be the other way round?

Does the Favorit suffer from the same problem with crappy plastic thermostat housings as the Felicia? Then the fault might be there? Maybe you weakened the housing when fitting the new thermostat so that it snapped shortly afterwards?

Besides, not that cold here in the south west of Sweden Glasgow climate roughly (maybe a centigrade or so below). I think that East Anglia has had it colder than we these last weeks.

[anewman]

It's an alloy thermostat housing on the favorit, the rim of the thermostat sits in aluminum alloy with the gasket over it. I suppose as I put jointing compound on the gasket I should be able to take it out and put it back in with little hassle.

[swedishskoda]

Well, sorry, then I've no idea at all.

Guess you'll have to wait till the experts come home from their pub rounds...

[KenONeill]

I think you're on the right lines with the idea that the new stat may be faulty too.

[anewman]

Just read on a website a suggestion to remove the expansion tank cap, and look for water flow. If water flows early on it suggests the thermostat opens too soon or is stuck open (which is the problem I may suspect).

[KenONeill]

Never actually heard that exact one before, but it works with an old radiator with a pressure cap on the header tank (I don't see why you'd get a flow in an expansion vessel since it's filled and emptied by a syphoning action from the radiator).

[swedishskoda]

Just theorizing. but:

Engine's coolant should reach 80-something Centigrades befor thermostat opens. Before that, the temperature of the radiator shouldn't change at all.

So: start engine and leave it idling. The hose going into the radiator/thermostat house shoud gradually get warmer but the radiator should stay cool till the stat opens.

If the radiator starts to warm up early (and the return hose from radiator to engine warms up almost in time with the other hose) then the stat must be faulty.

This sounds logical to me but unfortunately technology doesn't always follow my kind of logic so I might've missed something.

[KenONeill]

:iagree: - that might sound like a theory, but it's pretty much exactly what happens.

[daz51]

i know this is different being a diesel but it may amaze some of you.

In the winter months in my old Fabia tdi when i was driving in rush hour traffic doing about 50 - 55 mph, it would take anything upto 20 mins / 13 miles to get warm at that speed

[KenONeill]

It surprises me, cos driving at a similar speed, I've never needed more than 10 mins to get the engine temperature up to normal (also TDi).

[daz51]

trouble is Ken these cars are sp full of these bloody sensors, it only takes one not to work properly and can cause loads of problems

[anewman]

I guess the intake manifold temp sensor works as the engine idles near to 1k rpm then slows down to about 600rpm when warmer. My guess would be the lambda sensor in the exhaust down pipe is fine (if it failed wouldn't it burn rich and warm up quicker?). I guess too the oxygen/flow sensor on the intake is working as throttle response seems acceptable. Not sure what sensors that leaves on the SPI engine. Air intake pipe from exhaust manifold heat shield is in tact.

I guess newer cars have more sensors hence the ECU fault codes being so important these days.

[KenONeill]

Running rich is more usually an expensive way of cooling an engine.

[anewman]

Wouldn't get up to temp at all today with heater on full blast. However, on stopping the engine and putting the key in the on position, the temperature rose, suggesting to me the thermostat may be stuck open. Will have to look at that thermostat....

[KenONeill]

That's reasonably normal behaviour (known as "afterheating") for some engines. In your case I think it pretty much confirms the thermostat problem.

[Garth]

My old 1994 Favorit never used to get up to proper working temperature no matter what the motoring conditions were. Eventually I checked the thermostat as I had checked everything else, and found that it was installed upside down - there is a mark or arrow on the thermostat which shows which way they should be installed. The Haynes manual will show you which way round they are. Anyway, I put the thermostat in correctly and normal temperature was resumed. Car pulled much better too!

Regards,

Garth

[anewman]

The Haynes manual simply says "arrow pointing up" and the picture is not clear. I assume it means arrow pointing to the sky, and not up in relation to a car part.

[KenONeill]

In relation to a car part, the arrow should point in the direction of water flow with the thermostat open, so towards the radiator top hose.

[anewman]

In relation to a car part, the arrow should point in the direction of water flow with the thermostat open, so towards the radiator top hose.

Just taken it out to test. That would put the jiggle pin at the bottom?! This seems counter-intuitive as surely it should be at the top to help release air from the system as high as possible?!

Testing - thermostat visually fine, boil in pan - opens approx 89c, closes approx 84c which AFAIK is pretty much perfect.

Have replaced heater matrix anyway as my understanding from reading around is a blocked heater matrix can lead to these sorts of problems. The header tank has lots of noticeable scale which was not shifted by flushing with a hose or those flushing chemicals.

Just need to replace thermostat and hope for no leaks.

[anewman]

I decided to install the thermostat with the jiggle pin at the uppermost point. This appears to be the usual convention as the jiggle pin is to bleed air, so it's supposed to be at the uppermost point to bleed air so water can cover the core of the thermostat. In the light of this it didn't seem to make sense to point the arrow in the direction of water flow (jiggle pin would be at the bottom), arrow pointing up would put the jiggle pin level with the core.

Now the temperature rises to half-way and drops down, then up to half-way and down again repeatedly with no apparent reason, which I hope is simply an airlock.

[Skoda-Msport]

I have the same problem with my Fav, it wont get up to temp at all, always stays at the quarter mark, will only go up after a run when you leave it running, then it will go above half way.

Im going to buy a new thermostat anyway to try and cure this.

[swedishskoda]

I have the same problem with my Fav, it wont get up to temp at all, always stays at the quarter mark, will only go up after a run when you leave it running, then it will go above half way.

Im going to buy a new thermostat anyway to try and cure this.

Probably the right cure, too. That's exactly my Felicia when the stat broke: never above quarter mark except when stuck in a queue. With a new stat it's steady on the half mark, runs better too.