Just curious as a follow on from the Fabia Hot Hatch poll, is the Octavia vRS a Hot Hatch?

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Good enough for me

Definately a hot hatch - it just doesn't look as good as some of its competitors.

Yep, 100% hot hatch!!! Its just a Golf GTI with a boot!

I will concur it is 100% hot hatch out the tin.

Over the fabia vRS it has 70bhp and damn good handling. It needs very little to sort it out in the twisties.

By the way - I note there is no differentiating between the TDI and the TFSI. Is it just the petrol version being referred to here?

I will concur it is 100% hot hatch out the tin.

Over the fabia vRS it has 70bhp and damn good handling. It needs very little to sort it out in the twisties.

By the way - I note there is no differentiating between the TDI and the TFSI. Is it just the petrol version being referred to here?

No oil burner can be a hot hatch :P

There was no distinction between TDi and TFSI as I forgot .

I would say the TDi is a hot hatch too. I voted Yes.

After all, SEAT are now running Tractors in the BTCC!

Chris

I would say the TDi is a hot hatch too. I voted Yes.

Just to be clear, I have no problems with a hot hatch running diesel.

I have owned several ‘Hot Hatches’ over the years, but when I think of ‘Hot Hatch’, I think of my Clio 16V, Uno Turbo 1.4, Strada Abarth 130TC et al. The term Hot Hatch came around when the light and nimble Golf Gti 1.6 appeared and to me, this personifies the term of Hot Hatch. My current car could be described as a very Hot Hatch by some yardsticks, 0-60 = 6.7 secs, Top Speed a genuine 148mph, all round ventilated discs etc, but it weighs 1.5 Tonnes!! Therefore it isn’t a Hot Hatch to my thinking. So I reckon there should be a new term coined.

The Octy would have seemed enormous when the original Golf was about, and even though it has a hatch and undoubtedly a faster car, I don’t think it should be called a Hot Hatch as this isn’t really following the original ethos. Anyone in doubt should go and drive a 205 1.6 Gti or a mk I or II Golf Gti to see what I mean. The Octy is so much quicker than the original Golf, brakes harder (what doesn’t mind) and grips harder, all in a much safer and sophisticated package, but that’s not really the point to me. Modern cars are more like mini GTs (GT in the original sense) to my eyes.

Anyone got any ideas for a new term?

Modern cars are more like mini GTs (GT in the original sense) to my eyes.

I do so agree, that is why I put the poll up. I drive an Octavia vRS and I love it to bits, but I see it more as a GT (Grand Tourer) than a hot hatch.

I do so agree, that is why I put the poll up. I drive an Octavia vRS and I love it to bits, but I see it more as a GT (Grand Tourer) than a hot hatch.

Nah, the estate is a tourer.

Maybe a ho hatch only has two doors?.....devils advocate mode on

Chris

I have owned several ‘Hot Hatches’ over the years, but when I think of ‘Hot Hatch’, I think of my Clio 16V, Uno Turbo 1.4, Strada Abarth 130TC et al. The term Hot Hatch came around when the light and nimble Golf Gti 1.6 appeared and to me, this personifies the term of Hot Hatch. My current car could be described as a very Hot Hatch by some yardsticks, 0-60 = 6.7 secs, Top Speed a genuine 148mph, all round ventilated discs etc, but it weighs 1.5 Tonnes!! Therefore it isn’t a Hot Hatch to my thinking. So I reckon there should be a new term coined.

The Octy would have seemed enormous when the original Golf was about, and even though it has a hatch and undoubtedly a faster car, I don’t think it should be called a Hot Hatch as this isn’t really following the original ethos. Anyone in doubt should go and drive a 205 1.6 Gti or a mk I or II Golf Gti to see what I mean. The Octy is so much quicker than the original Golf, brakes harder (what doesn’t mind) and grips harder, all in a much safer and sophisticated package, but that’s not really the point to me. Modern cars are more like mini GTs (GT in the original sense) to my eyes.

Anyone got any ideas for a new term?

Have to agree with everything you say there... time has moved on since those day's and I now believe due to all the Euro standards etc... the Octy II VRS is there or there abouts when looking at what defines a 21st Century 'Hot Hatch' either in TDI or TFSI form

Nah, the estate is a tourer.

Maybe a ho hatch only has two doors?.....devils advocate mode on

Chris

Nope, my car has 2 doors and I wouldn’t call it a Hot Hatch:P

Nope, my car has 2 doors and I wouldn’t call it a Hot Hatch:P

I dont recall BMW ever doing a Hot Hatch or Mercedes or Audi come to that!!

I dont recall BMW ever doing a Hot Hatch or Mercedes or Audi come to that!!

BMW did a E30 318si to compete with the mk2 golf GTI.

then before the 1 series they had the 3series compact.

Merc have the A200 AMG, and the A-class evo etc

I think a lot of it depends on your deffinition of a hot hatch.

If you are 30+ and remember the 1st batch - XR3, Golf Gti, Pug 205, etc etc, then no car today can really be put in the same league.

However, this is only because todays cars have to be so safe and secure that the net result is a heavy monster with a big engine.

I'd rather have a pocket rocket from the old days - a true hot hatch to me, and balance it on the edge of grip and doom :lol:

However, I wouldn't own one now as they are potential death traps when driven in the mannar that gets the best out of them. Whilst driven at normal speeds, most of them will just seem like rattly noisey tin cans compared to the hatches of today.

So in the true sense of the phrase, the vRS can't be a hot hatch, but neither can any of the other 200HP+ hatchbacks we have today.

All in all, I'd still have a newer car over the old ones if driving on public roads is the main brief.

I dont recall BMW ever doing a Hot Hatch or Mercedes or Audi come to that!!

For me, the 'Hot hatch' was a great surprise when they were invented. If a Manufacturer makes a car that purports to be very quick from the out, then it takes away form that surprise. BMW have and do produce some very fast hatches, but they don’t fit the original concept. Similarly with Audi and Merc. But by the same token I don’t consider the Fabia to be a proper Hot Hatch either. It is quick (ignoring the poor 0-60) but not quite fulfilling the original ethos either.

I think a lot of it depends on your deffinition of a hot hatch.

If you are 30+ and remember the 1st batch - XR3, Golf Gti, Pug 205, etc etc, then no car today can really be put in the same league.

That may be true, I certainly think of Astra GTE 16v, Escort RS Turbo's etc. when I think of a hot hatch.

That said, a Clio with 182bhp and Corsa VXR running around 190 bhp as examples I would class as a hot hatch. Even a Focus ST, and Astra VXR are what I would class as a hot hatch, with the Octavia, although it is only a Golf GTi with a boot, it is a much bigger boot and that makes it a GT car IMHO, the kind of car where you throw your suitcases in and drive across Europe.

Edit :- Another thing that makes it a GT car is its styling, it is more subdued and stealthy.

Evo magazine class the octavia as a sports saloon, along with the likes of the old style scooby, mondeos, and something they refer to as a bmw m3

hot hatches get a separate class.

Billy

The Octavia is a hatch though, technically.

Nope, my car has 2 doors and I wouldn’t call it a Hot Hatch:P

Thanks for proving my point . You can't define a hot hatch in terms tangibles. For instance, when does a boot become large enough to make it a sports tourer and not a hot hatch? Thas' a retorical question by the way....

Chris

Edit :- Another thing that makes it a GT car is its styling, it is more subdued and stealthy.

Like a Dodge Viper you mean....

Chris

No, its miles too big and heavy. (the octy that is) Was a Capri ever coined a hot hatch? I don't remmember having thought of it as such.

No, its miles too big and heavy.

I have to agree with you there Pat about it being big and heavy, although its still much fun to drive

No, its miles too big and heavy. (the octy that is) Was a Capri ever coined a hot hatch? I don't remmember having thought of it as such.

I thought of the Capri when this thread started but came to the conclusion it was a Coupe and besides it wasn’t based on a normal family hatch. I feel we do need to find a new definition and term for modern hatchbacks and let us oldies live with the memory of ‘proper hot hatches’ intact.