TFSi remap comparisons & maintainance

[bluevrs3]

Hi,

I've noticed there appears to be 2 types of power delivery from the remaps :

Revo style : huge (300lb/ft) amounts of torque often around the 2200 - 4300rpm (ish) followed by a gradual tailing off over the rev range.

Bluefin/R-tech style : similar torque curve to standard, just more of it across the band.

To those who own the Revo style'd remaps, once the huge shove of torque settles out, does the engine feel like its 'out of breath' as you go past 5000rpm ?

Has there been any issues with your clutches taking that much torque in one lump?

When doing a Revo 'trial', has there been any issues getting the supplier to remap the car back to its standard ECU after? Heard its difficult to remap the car with a Revo map hiding away.

As for maintainance, what do people switch to after a remap? I switched my remapped Leon 1.8T to a 6-7k interval change after a remap, would I be looking at something similar for the vRS TFSI?

Thanks in advance

Edited 10 May, 2010 by bluevrs3

[Hauptmann]

I had my car Revo'd by Rainsworth's (Skoda dealer) in Mansfield after I'd put 2000 miles on it.

I am overall very impressed. I only rarely drive the car hard, and in normal driving the extra torque makes pootling around quite effortless. Its also great for cruising in 6th gear because you are always sitting on top of a lot of torque and a gentle press on the throttle will produce decent acceleration without the need to change down. When driving the car harder it keeps pulling all the way to the red line, but acceleration does taper off above 5500rpm (as it does in the standard car). Really its a bit pointless pushing up to the red line, and anyway you'll probably be travelling very fast by then!

I have had the map for about 14 months now and absolutely no issues. The car runs very smoothly indeed and fuel economy is the same, or better, than before the map. I always run on V-Power, Ultimate or sometimes 'Excelium' - all 97/98 Octane fuels.

All in all I thoroughly recommend Revo - can't think of a single negative aspect.

A remap does not necessarily mean any change to service schedule. Oil degradation is more dependent on driving style and usage pattern than whether the car is remapped or not. A remapped car used daily for motorway and A-road cruising would be easier on the oil than a standard one used for lots of short journeys in town.

Edited 10 May, 2010 by Hauptmann

[bluevrs3]

Thats what I liked about the Revo remap - extra torque where I'd use it. As for oil, I manage to average 30mpg+ over months of driving, which suggests I'm not putting too much stress on the engine over time, whilst running Sainsbury's super unleaded (Esso?).

[AdamR]

I'd be interested to hear experiences about the questions in this thread too

I did a quick photoshop comparison and scaled standard, Bluefin Stage 1 and Shark Stage 1 onto one graph... They are all off different dynos so I don't know how the figures will compare (although of course I stretched/shrunk them to fit the scale), but the curve shapes are interesting. Would be good to find a Revo map and pop it onto this graph too... Anyone have one for a 2.0 TFSi?

Red is standard

Blue are Bluefin

Pink/Yellow are Shark

Edit: Scales are BHP and ft-lb in case anyone is wondering

Edited 11 May, 2010 by AdamR

[vRS Carl]

You aint going to get 270bhp off a Stage 1 Remap as you have put for Shark performance.

You will find that you will get somewhere around 235-240bhp & 270lb/ft with all of them (REVO, Shark, Bluefin)

However just be wary. You don't want the power coming in all at once and then tailing off quickly. Ideally you want a curve like the Bluefin Torque curve you have plotted. But you wont get a curve like that from any of them above 250lb/ft (not that i have ever seen anyway). When you actually get it done your looking for a curve like the Shark Performance one. Some of REVO's latest files have similar curves (My Stage 2+ does) which is what your after. Smooth and Progressive not a big shove then out of puff.

Out of all of the Tuners out there for the TFSi if i were starting all over again it would be a toss up between REVO, Shark & APR for me and i would probably go with Shark.

Carl

[vRS Carl]

I always run on V-Power, Ultimate or sometimes 'Excelium' - all 97/98 Octane fuels.

V-Power is 99 Octane just so your aware

[AdamR]

You aint going to get 270bhp off a Stage 1 Remap as you have put for Shark performance.

Yeah, I know. I haven't plotted anything here, just put other curves I have seen onto one graph for comparison. Would be nice to have them all on the same car and on the same dyno, but hey, that ain't gonna happen!

Edited 11 May, 2010 by AdamR

[vRS Carl]

Ahh roger that thought you had plotted stuff

Carl

[Hyperviper34]

Being a bit of a noob when it comes to remapping and getting extra power out of a FSI turbo, what are we taking price wise versus power increase and what are the warranty issues?

(sorry if this has been asked before but thought I'd ask after reading this thread)

[bluevrs3]

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Gallery/rollingroaddays/BRISKODA%2020%2001%2007/Briskoda%20RR%20Plots/THREE.gif Here's a Revo remap. Found them all around here : http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/GalleryRollingroad.htm. It'll be more likely Shark for me, rather than Revo.

[AdamR]

Forgot about the JKM gallery, even have it saved in my browser favourites... :no: cheers!

Will update graph in a bit, can post up if anyone is interested? Might reduce figures for Shark remap to ~240bhp too as they do seem pretty high...

Edited 11 May, 2010 by AdamR

[bluevrs3]

Forgot about the JKM gallery, even have it saved in my browser favourites... :no: cheers!

Will update graph in a bit, can post up if anyone is interested? Might reduce figures for Shark remap to ~240bhp too as they do seem pretty high...

The shark graph itself is more important than its outright output values. Its all too easy to put the wrong parameters into the dyno system and get a higher than true reading.

[AdamR]

For sure.

[vRS Carl]

Being a bit of a noob when it comes to remapping and getting extra power out of a FSI turbo, what are we taking price wise versus power increase and what are the warranty issues?

(sorry if this has been asked before but thought I'd ask after reading this thread)

For just a remap alone your looking at between £399-599 depending on Tuner

For that you will get around about a 20% increase in power and a 35% increase in lb/ft (which is the bit you feel) but don't assume that higher figures mean a quicker car. Look at the curves and the smoother more progressive the curve the better the driveability of the car.

Thats the best "bang for buck" after that it gets more expensive for not much increase.

Carl

[AdamR]

Will update graph in a bit...

Revo added in green, with Shark one brought down to 240bhp at it's highest point (and torque scaled down in the same way - not sure how dynos work, could torque be measured independently of BHP? Either way you can still see the curve.) Would be interesting to see the 'actual' readout of the Shark and Bluefin, they seem quite 'smoothed' compared with the direct readouts you see on JKM website...

Edited 11 May, 2010 by AdamR

[vRS Carl]

Lol

For what it's worth i have learned to take Dyno figures with a pinch of Salt. All my Power runs (bar 2 when trying to sort a problem with Stage 2+) were done at JKM

To be honest Bhp & Torque figures are just for pub talk. It's how the car drives and what the Curve actually looks like.

Smooth and progressive is the way ahead. My car (according to the Dyno) has no more lb/ft on Stage 2+ than Stage 2. However because the Stage 2 Curve is now smoother the car is faster as the power is delivered progressively past 5k rpm.

Think of it this way the early the power comes in the easier it is going to spin the wheels in a FWD car.

The only way you could truly see what each manufacturer is like against each other is to Strap a car to a dyno and then load each Remap on and test one after another so that they are done on the same car with the same mods. 2 Identical cars with the same mods will not make the same power there will always be a difference which could be a number of things (way the car is run in, Intake temp constantly changing etc)

Carl

Edited 11 May, 2010 by vRSCarl

[AdamR]

The only way you could truly see what each manufacturer is like against each other is to Strap a car to a dyno and then load each Remap on and test one after another so that they are done on the same car with the same mods. 2 Identical cars with the same mods will not make the same power there will always be a difference which could be a number of things (way the car is run in, Intake temp constantly changing etc)

Totally agree, just trying to get some easily-viewed comparisons on the same page. There are so many maps about that it's pretty confusing!

[Ecomatt]

The Shark dyno plot is from my vehicle and it recentlly made 236bhp on R Techs rollers with 264lbs of torque. The above plot was done at Geoff Bloor Garages in Nottingham. When I had my car in at R Tech it was to have a pressure test and dyno run because I was having a P0299 fault code re-appear. My car had no leaks and appeared to be running fine apart from the fault code coming back.

Yesterday I did some logging with Ben (Shark90) and the turbo was missing the required limit by 500millibars. Which is quite a big gap between requested and actual boost pressure. But I have fixed it today by squirting some sil spray into the N75 valve and that has sorted the problem. No more fault code......yet lol I would presume the figures to be a little higher than 236bhp, as it had a sticky N75 valve when it was done. But I can confirm that the map is smooth and pulls effortlessly. I am not a figures person but am very pleased with the way the graph shows just how smooth it is

Edited 11 May, 2010 by 56OctyVRS

[vRS Carl]

It depends what you want really.

If you want a huge great shove early on and want to shred tyres then i suppose REVO is the way forwards. Their power tends to come in really early so the Customer really notices the difference. Having said that a lot of the latest files on all Stages have smoother more progressive curves.

If you are going to just stick a map on it and nothing else then bluefin would be the way to go. They will alter maps for you but its a long winded process of Emailing your current map to them, they then alter it and email it back.

If your going to Stick a map on and a few other bits, Exhaust, CAI etc then i would suggest Shark as Ben can set it up properly for you at the time of installation.

If (like me) you want to be able to tweak the map yourself for various parameters (Boost, Timing, Fuelling) to get the car to run perfect for you then REVO is the way to go but you will need VCDS, Diagnostic Cable and an SPS Select Plus switch. Can't comment on Shark as not used the STS but i think it's a similar system to bluefin although im sure Ben will confirm how it works.

In my humble opinion, limited knowledge & experience a car being setup on a Dyno will only get it running at about 90%. To get it setup properly you really need to do on road logging as Intake air speed, Temps and loading of the ECU are always different. I have found that after going to each stage i have had to do some on road tweaking to get the car running the way i want it. I.e intake temps remaining stable, Little or no timing correction on any cylinder and fuel trims all correct.

[AdamR]

It depends what you want really.

If you want a huge great shove early on and want to shred tyres then i suppose REVO is the way forwards. Their power tends to come in really early so the Customer really notices the difference. Having said that a lot of the latest files on all Stages have smoother more progressive curves.

If you are going to just stick a map on it and nothing else then bluefin would be the way to go. They will alter maps for you but its a long winded process of Emailing your current map to them, they then alter it and email it back.

If your going to Stick a map on and a few other bits, Exhaust, CAI etc then i would suggest Shark as Ben can set it up properly for you at the time of installation.

If (like me) you want to be able to tweak the map yourself for various parameters (Boost, Timing, Fuelling) to get the car to run perfect for you then REVO is the way to go but you will need VCDS, Diagnostic Cable and an SPS Select Plus switch. Can't comment on Shark as not used the STS but i think it's a similar system to bluefin although im sure Ben will confirm how it works.

In my humble opinion, limited knowledge & experience a car being setup on a Dyno will only get it running at about 90%. To get it setup properly you really need to do on road logging as Intake air speed, Temps and loading of the ECU are always different. I have found that after going to each stage i have had to do some on road tweaking to get the car running the way i want it. I.e intake temps remaining stable, Little or no timing correction on any cylinder and fuel trims all correct.

That's what I call helpful, thanks a lot! Exactly the sort of info someone would need when searching for remap advice (such as myself). Thanks a lot!

[shark_90]

The only way you could truly see what each manufacturer is like against each other is to Strap a car to a dyno and then load each Remap on and test one after another so that they are done on the same car with the same mods. 2 Identical cars with the same mods will not make the same power there will always be a difference which could be a number of things (way the car is run in, Intake temp constantly changing etc)

Now that's a great idea, and I would definitely be up for it!

[vRSy]

heres my opinion on my experiences with bluefin at stage 1, 2 and 2+, i then went to shark stage 3, started stripping mods down and dropped to stage 2 nand am nmow standard apart from shark performance stage 1.

The bluefin felt great until i tried another map, and realised how poor the dielivery was on the bluefin. dont get me wrong it had some oomph but it was on/off accross the entire rev range. the shark maps in comparison deliver a lot smoother and definately feel as strong if not stronger.

For instance bens stage 2 car was quicker on the road than my stage 2+ bluefin car before i swapped maps.

[bluevrs3]

Now that's a great idea, and I would definitely be up for it!

I'm pretty sure R-Tech offered the same against the 'big brands' only to have the brands back out and threaten lawyers!

[vRSy]

I'm pretty sure R-Tech offered the same against the 'big brands' only to have the brands back out and threaten lawyers!

You could guarantee there would be a lot of slightly higher tweaked maps with the tuners trying to outgun each other.

it would need to be an independant to do it in my opinion, and id want to see all AFR, Boost etc, timinglogs etc

[psycholist]

Keeping the engine reliable and the power delivery smooth would all be more important to me than power - the guy who did my car has the same engine delivering 170 bhp in his van, but that's probably pushing things too far for a car I want to be reliable first and quick second ...