Scout 1.8TSi High Oil Usage

[Eenymac]

Over the last few months I noticed an increase in oil usage which has turned worse in the last month or so.  It's currently going through about 2L every 500-600 miles.

It's also noticeably smoky, especially when accelerating away from slow speed, when I seem to be leaving a cloud of smoke in my wake.

 

Took it to the dealers and they topped it up and told me drop in after 500 miles and they'd check usage, but I had the light come on again after only 350 so had to top it up before I called them again.  Had a follow up call today saying they need to take the engine apart to investigate and this could cost up to £600, before they even find the problem, which could also be expensive to fix.

So, given the potential high cost of investigation / repair, they wonder if it's even worth paying for it all.  Said they'd get someone from sales to call me to "discuss options".  Being a cynic, I expect one of those options being to try and sell me a replacement car.

 

The car itself is over 4 1/2 years old (first reg in March 2010) and has now done 99K miles.  Apart from having to have the Haldex unit replaced (which cost me £1.5K 2 years ago), the car is in good condition and the inside is almost like new. 

 

Any ideas as to possible causes anyone?

I was thinking piston rings shot, so understand a high cost to fix that, but certainly worth doing as the car itself is in otherwise good condition.

 

Typically, I make the final loan payment on the car next month!  Just cleared credit card too so was thinking I'd be flush for a while! :(

 

 

 

[silver1011]

Two litres of engine oil every 500 miles? Wow, no wonder it's smoking!

 

Whilst I appreciate it is out of warranty I'd be pursuing Skoda UK for a goodwill contribution to the diagnostics at least.

 

Does it have full Skoda main dealer service history?

 

How come you had to pay for a new Haldex unit? Surely two years ago the car was still in warranty, or was it out on mileage? I assume Skoda chipped in then too?

[silver1011]

The similarity to this thread posted only a few days ago, again relating to a 1.8 TSi Scout is concerning.

 

I hope this isn't another issue that is now only coming to light on older cars...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/332385-18tsi-high-oil-consumption/

[Eenymac]

Two litres of engine oil every 500 miles? Wow, no wonder it's smoking!

 

Whilst I appreciate it is out of warranty I'd be pursuing Skoda UK for a goodwill contribution to the diagnostics at least.

 

Does it have full Skoda main dealer service history?

 

How come you had to pay for a new Haldex unit? Surely two years ago the car was still in warranty, or was it out on mileage? I assume Skoda chipped in then too?

 

Yep, always had it serviced at the same Skoda dealers.

I put it in for a service when it was just out of warranty and was called and informed the Haldex unit had an oil leak and would have to be replaced.  I dug my heels in and pointed out that, as it was a sealed unit, it must be a manufacturing fault.  SUK decided to stump up for the new unit but I still had to pay the labour charge.

[Paul Ekins]

I have just discovered the seals on my 1.8TSi Scout turbo are leaking and I guess this may be the main reason for the high oil consumption I am getting (1L per 500 miles at the moment).

 

Paul

[DGW]

I posted the following information in another thread about high oil consumption:

'Skoda have issued a Technical Product Information (TPI 2027920/1 dated 05-Jan-2012) detailing repair action in cases where 1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine oil consumption is excessive, ie more than 0.5L/1000km. This involves replacing the set of complete pistons as well as the set of connection rods. I believe that the cost of this repair in the UK is circa £2500.'

[Eenymac]

I have just discovered the seals on my 1.8TSi Scout turbo are leaking and I guess this may be the main reason for the high oil consumption I am getting (1L per 500 miles at the moment).

 

Paul

 

Thanks for that info, something to mention when I speak to the dealers next.

[Eenymac]

I posted the following information in another thread about high oil consumption:

'Skoda have issued a Technical Product Information (TPI 2027920/1 dated 05-Jan-2012) detailing repair action in cases where 1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine oil consumption is excessive, ie more than 0.5L/1000km. This involves replacing the set of complete pistons as well as the set of connection rods. I believe that the cost of this repair in the UK is circa £2500.'

 

Another good bit of info I can bring up with the dealer.  I must admit, I was leaning more towards this being the possible problem.   Buggers haven't called me back so I'll call them tomorrow and see what they have to say.

[blackspaven]

Seems possibly more with Scouts than other 1.8's so I wonder if the 4x4 is anything to do with it? Possibly an increase in strain on the engine running it?

[Eenymac]

I have just discovered the seals on my 1.8TSi Scout turbo are leaking and I guess this may be the main reason for the high oil consumption I am getting (1L per 500 miles at the moment).

 

Paul

 

Meant to ask, are you seeing any smoke from the exhaust with that issue, or is it just the high oil consumption?

[pjc]

I've had a similar problem on my 1.8 TSi Octavia - all reasonable until 58,000 mile service then suddenly oil consumption gone from 'high' to 'low' every 6,000 miles to 1,000 miles. Handbook says can use up to 1/2 litre per 1,000 miles so dealer says 'everything OK' and if I want to take it further cough up for an hour's oil test. Some hope; got a new Porsche Macan coming next September so will live with oil consumption and dump Skoda for the any future purchase. 

 

This is the same dealer that wanted to replace the front brake pads at 50% wear and a shock absorber they said was showing signs of leaking - my MOT guy said they must have Xray eyes to see behind the rubber boot!

[v0n]

If you're "lucky" it might be just seals around turbo or poorly reconditioned turbo (if you bought car second hand). If you're unlucky it's the piston rings (made out of cheese on first gen 1.8 TSI). And considering just how massive that oil consumption is you might be mere few hours away from losing pressure on two or more cylinders, so get comfy in that "slow" lane for the next few weeks.

 

The latter issue can affect all CDAA and CDAB engines in cars manufactured between 2009 and 2011 and it is widely known across entire VW group (don't let dealer tell you otherwise). The issue is incorrect materials and design flaw in early generation of engines paired with enhanced stress of using extended services/long life oil. This leads to slow disintegration of piston rings gradually increasing poor lubrication and variations in oil delivery to upper parts of engine, eventually leading to damage and need of full engine refurbishment.

 

Audi developed stage 1 workaround (TPI : 2024604 IIRC) preventing extensive damage to the engine as early as 2010. Stage 1 is basically modified breather, new zimering, modified camshaft (with uprated model) and ECU adjustment. Since late 2010 in some countries Audi also replaces camshaft adjustor, a small electrical part which in models manufactured up until may 2010 would occasionally cease due to lower oil pressure leading to further complications. Stage 1 is performed to engines with oil consumption not exceeding 0.5L per 1000km, it doesn't repair damage already done but fixes the initial problem and stops oil consumption at current level. As far as I know Skoda doesn't perform Stage 1 repairs in UK, because for majority of users, slow degradation will result in failures outside of warranty period, so it's usually defended with "this is normal for that type of engine, your manual states oil consumptions up to 1l per 1000km is still within manufacturers tolerances". This is true, and your cars handbook indeed contains such statement. Skoda will usually investigate only oil consumptions issues exceeding 0.5L per 1000km. With oil consumption at the levels you quote, you are already past that stage. 

 

Stage 2 repair is performed to engines irreversibly damaged by poor delivery of oil, and involves fitting newer type of pistons (06H 107 065 DF) with uprated piston rings (06H 107 065 BF), uprated camshaft, breather and conrods. There are several unaffected parts that undergo replacements TPI once the engine is out, including already aforementioned camshaft adjustor. As far as I know Skoda performs limited version of the above stage 2 without replacing camshaft and fitting breather, as described under TPI 2027920/1 using new piston assembly 06J 198 401 H. It is of utmost importance to make sure the repairer follows full TPI 2027920/2 including replacement of cam chain tensioner to version K on 1.8 TSI or version T on 2.0TSI (part number 06H 109 467 K or T) as per TPI 2032694 and new redesigned chain 06H 109 158 M to avoid it skipping a tooth in the future (as many forumites experienced). Make sure they replace chain guides 06H 109 509Q and 06H 109 469AP and all the gaskets regardless of their state and pay them extra to replace camshaft position sensor, they will tell you they never break, don't listen, just replace it in the same time. It's about £800-900 worth of parts and £2000-2500 worth of workshop hours. 

VAG does not replace or recondition cylinders/engine blocks, regardless of their state/wear caused by worn pistons.

 

Don't let Skoda tell you the car is out of warranty and you have to pay for it from your own pocket. Consumer laws allow us to expect products like cars and car engines last longer than 4.5 years. It helps if oil consumption was reported during previous services (problem started within warranty and was growing). Usual outcome for out of warranty failed engines is 80% of cost participation from Skoda UK/dealer and 20% from owner. Obviously if you didn't service car within VAG network, it might be a problem. I can't go into details of my own battle with Skoda UK on my 1.8 TSI, because warranty period on my reconditioned engine is not over yet and publishing any (very gory) details of my case might still back fire against me (I just had additional repairs to additional repairs on that reconditioned engine sorted few days ago).

 

Burning that much oil also means your catalytic converter will probably be next one to go. 

Edited 8 November, 2014 by v0n

[Eenymac]

Thanks v0n, an extremely helpful load of information and I'll be printing this off as a reference for the dealer!

 

I may in fact contact another dealer about it and see what they say.  The usual one I use in Reading (where my office is located) seem to be completely useless.  I was awaiting a call from them about next steps in getting it in for further investigation and repair but heard nothing for over a week.  Then they called and reminded me of it's next service coming up.  When I mentioned the fault, they still pushed me to book it in for a service first, even though they'd then probably have to start stripping the engine anyway to find the fault.  Completely bloody useless and just trying to screw more money out of me.  They got taken over by another multi-marque franchise a year ago and the level of competency and customer service has dramatically dropped since then.

 

Might try Citygate in Watford and see what they say.

[Eenymac]

**UPDATE**

 

After getting no joy from the usual dealer close to the office, I instead called Citygate in Watford and they booked it in for the next day to investigate.

They called me back late afternoon the same day to say they'd taken a look and found that the turbo was full of oil.  On a brighter note, they'd done a pressure test on the pistons and all was within expected parameters!

 

So, new parts were ordered - including a new catalytic converter too.  Unfortunately not all parts were available from stock so had to wait but finally all parts were in and fitted. Also had them carry out full service as that was due soon anyway. Picked the car up yesterday - after being without it for 8 1/2 days - and it's running just fine.  In fact, better than fine as I hadn't probably noticed the drop in performance over time too much, but it's back to it's original quick self again.  Even smoother at pulling away than before, without that often reported hesitation in 1st gear.

 

So happy to have the car back again and mobile.  I was becoming a bit of a hermit and going stir crazy working from home for that amount of time and even looked forward to driving to the office today. However, I think I'll be eating a lot of baked beans, keeping the central heating off and buying cheaper bog rolls for a while!

[silver1011]

A new turbo, cat and full service?

 

Not much change from £2,000 then I'm guessing!

[FLAPPERJACK7]

A new turbo, cat and full service?

Not much change from £2,000 then I'm guessing!

And the rest! !! Lol. got to be 3500 to 4000 or more. Absolute pig of a job on that engine. Subframe and steering off transfer box off propshaft off . And still awkward to get the turbo off. Been reading this post and was expecting it to turn out to be a complete engine.

[Eenymac]

And the rest! !! Lol. got to be 3500 to 4000 or more. Absolute pig of a job on that engine. Subframe and steering off transfer box off propshaft off . And still awkward to get the turbo off. Been reading this post and was expecting it to turn out to be a complete engine.

 

Adding the full service to the mix put it just a few quid over the £3K mark.... OUCH! 

 

Now hoping for the lottery win at the weekend so I can go back and drive away the Superb Outdoor Tour de France edition in the showroom!

[Eenymac]

An update on the continuing smokey saga.

Car was in the dealers again Monday to late Thursday afternoon last week as the smoking came back and was using lots of oil again.

 

This time, after further investigation, they informed that they needed to replace the engine breather oil separator and pipe - found oil where it shouldn't have been - so it was taken out for a good run afterwards and no smoke seen.  Picked it up late on the thursday afternoon and drove to the office in Reading and back on the Friday - long route home as it was nice and sunny - and no issues or smoke seen (I was looking in rear view mirror every time I pulled away or accelerated).  Come Saturday morning and the smoking is back and after only 140 miles since collection the oil level light came on again, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!

 

So, I'll be calling the dealer again to get it back in for the 3rd time.

[silver1011]

Time for a new engine!

[Eenymac]

Time for a new engine!

 

Hence the sweating smiley!

having spent £3K already, the cost of a new engine would probably be more than the car is worth.  I'd also be straight on the blower to Skoda UK chewing them out.

 

Strange that on both occasions, after they identified a problem and fixed it, the car has been fine for a couple of days before the smoke has appeared again.

[pipsyp]

It seems quite a common occurance with recent (but not the newest) TSi motors.

My Dad had a 60 plate 2.0 TFSi 180ps A5 Sportback SE not so long ago, absolutely beautiful car with about 6.5k of optional spec on it but alwayd used oil and towards its 3rd birthday was doing a litre around every 200 miles. He rather begrudgingly sold it on the basis he thought it likely it would either end up costing him a fortune to put right out od warranty or blow up on him altogether. Shame really as Id planned to buy it off him when he was going to move it on but this put me off of course.

Also found out recently that a friend at work with an A5 coupe with the same engine ended up having to have all new pistons, rings etc to cure his oil problem which gather had gotten as bad as 1 litre every 100 miles!

He was told it was a known issue to then have it completely denied by the dealership and asked to cough up circa £5k! He managed to get away with ALOT of goodwill but still hurt his pocket a bit to out right.

My Dad prior to the A5 also had a 10 plate 1.4 TFSi A3 S-line from new that had oil consumption issues.

[FLAPPERJACK7]

It seems quite a common occurance with recent (but not the newest) TSi motors.

My Dad had a 60 plate 2.0 TFSi 180ps A5 Sportback SE not so long ago, absolutely beautiful car with about 6.5k of optional spec on it but alwayd used oil and towards its 3rd birthday was doing a litre around every 200 miles. He rather begrudgingly sold it on the basis he thought it likely it would either end up costing him a fortune to put right out od warranty or blow up on him altogether. Shame really as Id planned to buy it off him when he was going to move it on but this put me off of course.

Also found out recently that a friend at work with an A5 coupe with the same engine ended up having to have all new pistons, rings etc to cure his oil problem which gather had gotten as bad as 1 litre every 100 miles!

He was told it was a known issue to then have it completely denied by the dealership and asked to cough up circa £5k! He managed to get away with ALOT of goodwill but still hurt his pocket a bit to out right.

My Dad prior to the A5 also had a 10 plate 1.4 TFSi A3 S-line from new that had oil consumption issues.

Hi out of interest what kind of mileage was on your dad's Audi. ?

[pipsyp]

Hi out of interest what kind of mileage was on your dad's Audi. ?

Not alot....somewhere in the region of 30k miles I think. He never drove it at all hard and I think thats possibly part of the problem...sure these things have very hard cylinder bores (nikasil perhaps) that dont bed in properly if not run in with mixed driving style.

same story with the A3, that hadnt done many miles either.

The 1.4 TSi twincharger engine in the Fabia vRS etc was similarly afflicted.

Edited 17 December, 2014 by pipsyp

[FLAPPERJACK7]

I have heard similar stories with similar mileage. Makes sense to get the warranty extended.

[pipsyp]

Indeed. I had a Fabia vRS with one of he so called problem CAVE engines; ragged it from new and it used to do a litre roughly every 4.5k miles which was about bang on the money. Did notice if it was used gently it did use a bit more oil though.