Lady Elanore

How's life with the Jag going. I must admit I've had a hankering for a V8 Jag F type for many years. Even with the OPF, they still sound great.

Car and Driver reported those charge efficiency figures based on what they read from 49 pages of certification documents Tesla submitted to the EPA But as I said, higher voltage and also DC will help charge efficiency. I'm pretty sure a large part of my inefficiency in charging is inverter loss which will probably in turn, be mostly heat loss. Also, not fully charging will probably increase efficiency, as that last push to fill a battery can cause residual heat loss etc. Mind you, that brings back the range issue again, at least for my needs if not most people's lesser requirements.

I've found this form a Tesla figure on a 2022 model Y performance using a 240v source For the 202``1 Model Y - Performance version, adding 81.052 kWh to the battery required 92.213 kWh, or 14 percent more. Although that didn't mention the temperature at charging other than it was conducted in a climate controlled chamber, not a baking hot day or a freezing cold one either. I would think that higher voltage, ie not from home charging, would reduce inefficiencies further.

Interestingly enough Tesla have previously only quoted their Scope 1 and 2 figures for emissions, but new legislation has forced them to release their Scope 3 figures taking the C02 figure from a reported 2,500,000 tonnes to 30,500,000 tonnes (I have seen figures that differ slightly from those, but in general they are a reasonable average of ones doing the rounds). Which apparently puts them on a more equal footing to someone like Ford when overall size is taken into account. The graph you show is interesting, the article it comes from is very thorough, but it does mention much later on, that some of the figures it talks about assume the battery last to EoL. I know that If I had a 300 mile range EV which in the winter struggled to top 220 real world miles and then after several years it was down to 80% range which in turn led to me getting less than 180 miles/charge, I would want a new battery. A big battery will be around £6-9k depend on size and manufacturer, but in a green world, we will keep our cars much longer. Also, the greenness of the energy in manufacture and use of the cars also depends on the country you make and drive these EVs and that in turn can alter overall figures depending on how much fossil fuel that country of manufacturer and charging, uses. That massive new battery factory they are once again saying they are going to build in Northumberland will be interesting to follow. I can see that to keep cost down (now the government has come to some sort of 'deal' with the Aussies), there will be some fudging of the green credentials in the build and a lot of concrete being used and not the more expensive green concrete either. But as I say, time will tell on that one. As I say, I'm not against EVs, but an inefficient Hydrogen production which produces very little absolute GHG vs a battery which may be clean in running, but produces a very large CO2 amount in mining, refining and construction, I prefer the inefficient plugging away Hydrogen manufacture. Storing electricity is still basically rubbish (big, heavy and expensive), but hopefully the next generation of battery will appear in my lifetime, possibly even before I reach state pension age...hopefully. My EV has a battery just shy of 13kW/h, of which around 10kW/h hours are available for drive (and heating). Putting a meter across the charge cycle shows I need over 12kW to charge the 10kW that the battery wants. I assume that much of this is inverter loss, but Peugeot doesn't say, at least nothing I found yet shows a break-down on battery charging inefficiency. If that figure is a scalable one, then you need 20% more juice than you get back from your battery. I suspect the smaller size and quite possibly the battery is less sophisticated than some, but I say what I see in my case. I've spent a lifetime working with rechargeable batteries and they are a pain in the arse in general, but I can see it is 'part' of an overall solution that is needed, I just think they are not a Holy Grail of any sort. Mind you, if I am allowed to have a big V8 as long as I also have an EV, then I'm in. Or maybe just get that big V8 and grown more vegetables?

I don't think that the inefficiency of renewables converting water to hydrogen is that much of a problem, especially when you consider the big impact that mining for minerals used in batteries is causing at the moment. But the 2 arguments for hydrogen are interesting. The ICE one relies on the fact we already have the infrastructure and manufacturing in place to make them (a redesign of cylinder heads and injects notwithstanding). The building of so many mega factories, designing EV cars (huge amount of emissions from all that computing) and completely new manufacturing facilities has produced a massive amount of green house gas over the last few years and the break even for emissions of a large battery EV are only after a surprisingly high number of miles. I've seen JCB being quite open about the challenges of Hydrogen ICE and accept they had to do a fair bit of work to sort the emissions out. In an ICE car we would probably have to accept that we may have a decent amount of torque, but probably not a huge amount of power, more akin to an average family diesel in its performance and not like a 911. Harry Metcalf got some Carbon-neutral fuel in, for his fleet and said he will report on it later. He did mention the cost, approximately three times the current cost of fuel, but that would come down to some degree if it was scaled up in its production. I like the idea of carbon-neutral fuel for pretty much the same reasons as hydrogen ICE, we don't need to add extra millions of tonnes of green house gases building and designing new 'stuff'. The hydrogen fuel cell is also fine with me and there seems to be a genuine move that manufacturers are looking at this in earnest. As far as I know, the number 2 car on the Dust to dust rating is still the series 1 Land Rover. Something I doubt electric cars will ever come close to replicating. It's not that I don't like the idea of electric cars and I accept that although I will never have any real interest or feel any more passion towards them than I do my fridge freezer, we need to do something about global warming and cars are a contributor to its rising. I simply feel that of all the alternatives, the wrong direction to head in, is the battery electric vehicle. On a positive note, this super warm weather of late has brought about my best ever range in my PHEV, even with the air con on full tilt, as its batteries seem happier.

They are the tall ones and the few that are uncovered (probably by interested parties) are CCS types. The others are still unmolested.

An M&S foodie place that I sometimes frequent (it's on a retail park), has just had a load of charge points added. They are all Tesla ones Now, as most of them are still covered with wrapping, I can't vouch that they are all CCS chargers, but it is annoying if they are. Most EVs and PHEVs aren't Teslas, but unless it is one of those Tesla share stations, some of the points can do type 2, or you have a pretty modern EV with compatible CCS charging (see earlier point), it's no use to you. I'll wait and see, but it doesn't look good so far. Maybe I'll get that V8 before I retire, after all

Just more people showing me why I won't be going EV any time soon. I'd lose my job or gain 40lbs if I had an EV. On a slightly positive note, My car had a software update last month and it was claimed to help the range of the batteries. I was very, very sceptical, as during winter the claimed range around town was "up too" 39 miles, yet the reality was around 15-17. Anyhoo it's a lot warmer now and the range is easily mid 20s now, perhaps a bit more and the range shown on the dash is a little bit more accurate. I guess I'll have to wait until winter to see the truth behind the update.

You might like this Rob

Ford don't seem to think so, at least not a battery one. Although I feel a hydrogen car (using a cell) is still an EV. the title of the video is a bit misleading, but the CEO does have serious doubts about battery EVs. There's quite a bit online where he states about his concerns of Ford carrying on down the battery route ie infrastructure, Range, mining and minerals used etc. I'm quite excited by this news as I feel I can get behind Hydrogen cars (obviously many hurdles to overcome with them still), but Rolls Royce too are looking at Hydrogen fuel cells (but not hydrogen I.C.E.), as are many others in this growing area of potential alternative power

I don't want to have to pay for parking if I can have it for free, London is expensive enough as it is. It matters not whether I have to pay for parking and get free electricity, or pay for electricity and get free parking. In fact, on the return trip it means my M3 wouldn't really cost much more to drive home than my PHEV. I had written a lengthy reply explaining why I like to have my car within reasonable reach (it's a work related matter) where the charging possibilities are, where I stay in London and also the cost implications of my parking, but have now deleted that part of this post as it is clearly pointless to print it. I realise you are an EV fan, but IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME AND MY JOB!!!!!!! Enjoy your EV. I don't want one thank you. They are an inferior vehicle for my needs. One day this might not be so. I won't reply any further on the matter.

It's funny, but the number of Teslas I've watch go around a track and suffer power drops (overheating) and brake failure are numerous. This one had the (very wise) track Pack, which adds the essential Carbon Ceramics. But that is just over 3 seconds quicker than a car similar to my M3 went round. I did save around £40-50k on the Tesla price mind you and I suspect the M3 could do that time numerous times back to back. I remember watching the TT Zero doco and seeing the faces of spectators when the first EV bikes to get around 100mph for a lap went past If only they could do more than one lap at a time it would be interesting to see how fast they might truly go.

That doesn't make sense. I have an 8 hour window when I am not at work and this was for 9 days! I either try and get 6-7 hours sleep a night, after being on my feet for over 15 hours straight (I also did enough steps to put me in the top 3% for 9 days straight! ). The nearest charger was about half a mile away, but I would have to drive there, walk back to the digs, try and get to sleep (remember I have 8 hours of free time) get up from sleep, walk back to car (so adding a total of another mile to my 8 miles a day regime) and try to get back to sleep for a couple of hours (not much chance having just got up and dressed to go move the car). If I leave the car charging overnight, I get hit with a penalty after 4 hours and I would still have to get up a bit earlier to move the car and hopefully find a decent parking space on a road near where I am staying. It's utter nonsense. Maybe 9-5 ers find it easy, but I was working 5-8+!! That's not 3 hours a day work either. I work hard, do long hours and time is at a premium. I'm sure some would stay in Chelsea, pay an extortionate amount for digs - there are some cheaper, but ropy B&Bs about, pay for parking (nice Q park nearby at £30+ a day) and return home with hardly any profit from their excursion. I work to make a living, a PHEV is just an inconvenience I didn't see happening. I won't make that mistake again if I have an alternative. Thank God I don't drive an EV. As I keep saying, it works for some, but not for me. I went into this thing with hope in my heart and a positive attitude, but now realise the error of my way. Also, not charging for long periods of time leads to other pain in the bum things, like the mileage calculator for electrical running displays nonsense. You might have 20 miles of range, but it displays 11. A flat traction battery means the car keeps monetarily switching to recharge mode (from its ICE) to keep it as a minimum charge (approx 2-3kWh) this is also necessary as I believe the heating comes from the traction battery. Anyhoo the upshot is economy drops even further. On the motorway the mpg is not end of the world stuff, it's merely hampered by the extra weight and complexity it drags around half the time. I'm at home at the moment and have done a couple of trips to the shops on 95% EV power, great, makes sense, would recommend it to people living this lifestyle, but my next big job, will cause exactly the same problems as above.

Nothing near me, or I would have done it. Having around 8 hours between arrive at my digs and leaving my digs the next morning, I would have had to find a charge point before retiring to my bed, charge the car for 4 hours, get up out of bed, go and unplug car, return to a hopefully still available parking spot, walk back to digs and go to bed again. I don't think so. 9 days of punishing work means you simply can't afford to lose a nights sleep. I was sufficiently tiered near the end of the gig I fell asleep travelling into work and missed my tube stop. Plus, the extra cost of charging away from home on a street, means it's probably cheaper to drive my return leg of well over 200 miles lugging around the extra weight. As for working in Chelsea, there is the congestion zone charge. So I stay where I can afford digs (a long way away) rely on walking and tubes, avoid congestion charge, avoid over price charging facilities, avoid disrupting what little time I have that isn't work or travel and save money from not staying in Chelsea. My next trip to London is similar in its hours, perhaps they are slightly less brutal, although not by much. PHEVS charge so slowly it's a pain. It doesn't work for me, except when I have time off at home. So until I retire, I won't be actively looking for another electrically assisted vehicle again. Pain in the bum for some of us, easier for others.

I think the best bit of the 3008 is its seats. Super comfy and have a built-in massage feature! The turning circle is astonishing too, something I didn't expect, but it turns around like a Nissan Micra.

Unfortunately, if I am not working, I am travelling, sleeping, eating or trying to find my hotel whilst lost in London or another city centre. So here is a recent example. I've just come back from a couple of weeks working in Chelsea. Get up at 05:00hrs, do bathroom essentials and go to work. Finish work and travel back to digs, arriving at 20:00-20:30hrs (all done on the tube and 4 miles a day pounding the London streets). I then try to wind down, sort out a couple of emails (self-employed ) perhaps grab a quick bite from my landlord (he is generous with nibbles - oooh matron) and an optional quick drink, then hit the sack. Car parked in secure street location a good distance away. The deep joy is that on the day I return home, I rise at 05:00hrs, go to work etc, travel back to pick car up, return to site in order to pick up the boss who was working an extra hour or so beyond my hours (he lives near me and it was my turn to drive this year), then drive back together to the frozen North with a dead battery and a full tank, arriving at home sowhere between 01:30-02:30hrs. No way to recharge as I can't afford 4 hours plus the mucking about time needed, in order to charge my car. A similar thing will be happening to me in the near future when I will make two return trips to London over 5 days and have a similar problem. Usually I travel to work, park at site where there is no charging facilities and as I'm working a 12 hour day, plus travel (try not to stay in hotels/digs as they are very expensive these days and I've not had a pay rise in 5 years) so I lug around a dead weight on the return trip. As I've said, when I retire, it might make sense, or if I was fortunate to work near to home it would be fine, but I don't, never have for the most part and similarly, never will sadly. It's worse if I go from job to job as the car doesn't see a charge for several days. We had a senior manager turned up hours late for a job recently, as he was travelling up from London and couldn't find a functioning, or available, charger at a service station. PHEVS/EVs, not for me thanks. Having said that my 3008 is otherwise a great car. Comfy, spacious, lots and lots of toys, good-looking design too. Oh and 300bhp when charged, helps keep it fun....for a short while.

I doubt my next car will have any electrical 'motive' power, unless it's one of those pretend hybrids with the teeny self charge batteries and that would be because I had no choice in the matter.

I've got to say that PHEVs can be a pain in the bum. I often charge up at home, drive a distance which will flatten the traction battery (it's nicely metered out during the course of the journey if you use the sat nav). But once away from home, I can't recharge. This is mainly down to the fact that PHEVS generally (or not at all afaik) don't have fast charging capabilities. They either do 3.7kW or 7kW charging, meaning you need either 4 or 2 hours to recharge. I don't have time to waste doing that sort of tethered recharge. I therefore fill up and drive around as a heavy 1.6 petrol car that is lugging around a crazy amount of excess weight. EV/PHEVS etc still do not work for me and I can't see that changing between now and when I retire. Once I no longer work I'll give EVs a proper look. but suspect I won't be able to afford one with decent range.

It's quite some time since I updated this thread, so here goes. I've gotten used to the M3 and it is, as Steve Sutcliffe says, "a weapon". Astonishing performance from a paltry 3 litres and a rather podgy kerbweight. On a rolling start, alongside my beloved M4 (F82 model), in the dry and on a smooth road, in relatively warm weather.....I doubt the M3 (G80) would be much quicker, but everywhere else, in every other condition, the M3 is quicker...much quicker. It's simply nuts quick, owing to its traction and ability to hide its rather lardy weight. Cornering grip is great, turn in is superb, body control is nigh-on absolute and the brakes are actually pretty good. Build quality is almost faultless, with high quality materials everywhere. The ability to surprise 'performance' model Teslas is great fun (they believe a quick 0-60 makes their cars sports cars....not to mention the 0-60 figures quoted are with a 1 foot roll out). It also delivers moderately good mpg, considering its weight and performance and has plenty of room inside and in the boot. Even the looks, something I quite liked by the time I owned one and has grown over time, are praised by more people than any other car I have owned or driven (? Surprised me, given the initial, almost universal hatred of the design). And yet... I miss my old M4. The M4 was a car that tried to kill you basically. Wet weather was a tippy toe exercise, mid-corner bumps were interesting and you had to think before you flexed your toes. Cross-country and on a rough road it wasn't a fast car, it was a lairy, heart stopping, fun car. I loved it. It has surprised me, if I'm honest. The general motoring press has gone nuts for the new model, something they didn't always do with the previous version (all except Chris Harris who loved the previous incarnation more than the current one). Don't get me wrong, the M3 is a brilliant car and a wonderful thing to own, I realise I'm very, very lucky, but still.... It's odd really, I recognise the car is better in almost every way and by quite some margin, but to enjoy it properly on public roads, you need to be travelling as escape velocity speeds. The only things I can quantifyably point as dislikes, are the steering wheel (too fat) and the low speed ride (seriously jiggly, even on the softest setting). All the systems work, as does the remote phone app stuff, the interior is a triumph (there are still buttons and knobs) and as a tool to drive quickly in, it's almost peerless in its class.....and yet.... I keep looking at F types Jags, the P450 in particular. A car that is much slower, less well built, doesn't handle as well, has much crappier software and infotainment system stuff. It's thirstier and will cost more to run. It does have enormous character though, that dinosnore V8, the cruder suspension (at least in its handling), some weird design decisions.....and yet....those looks and that sound. So, go figure. My old M4 (F82) I would rate as a 8/10 car and the M3 a 9.5/10 car and yet I miss the inferior model perhaps it is my age, or the fact that cars are probably becoming too fast to enjoy properly on the public roads (although overtaking is still a hoot). I've always thought that true beauty has to have flaws to reach that elevated status and I think that I'm coming to the same conclusion with cars. A perfect car isn't necessarily the car you want, it's just the car you think you want. Disclaimer: I do still love my M3, I'm just trying to put into perspective that it is so accomplished, some of the character that can make a car special is lacking imho. In wet weather I do not necessarily agree with that view of course I think only Mustang drivers know the true nervousness of the M3/4 (F80 series models) in damp conditions

My old M4 at Rother Valley (there was hovercraft racing going on that day!)

Having just seen wheeler Dealers and the projected cost of replacement parts, I'd be too frightened to get a Maserati I think. Although if you know where to go, then it looks like even the older Mazzers are potentially affordable... ....hmmmm 4.2 V8 Ferrari engine ...

I watched this ^^^ and then this... Now tell me which sounds best. They both sound beautiful, the complexity of the V12 vs the growl of the V8. In the end, I came down on the V8s side, which surprised me.

I think the used car market will struggle for a while yet. Used stock, especially the desirable 2-4 year old cars that PCPs produce (one of the main reasons dealers like to sell PCPs) are still in short supply. Chip shortages, which are still ongoing, if a lot better these days, mean manufactures prefer to sell higher spec cars and models and as these cars are in general short supply for the used market they are holding up well in their inflated prices. It will end one day, but I think we are a couple of years away from a more sensible pricing strategy coming to the mass used car market 😞 last year if you wanted a new 2.0 F type, it was a 12 month wait, if you wanted a 5.0 V8 it was around 6 months for the 450bhp model and even less for the silly SVR versions. Jaguar wanted to put their limited resources (Covid related issues) into the higher spec and higher priced models. Hopefully it will eventually lead to some bargains, but I'm not seeing any yet. I saw a big Merc dealer close in Manchester last year, partially because they couldn't get any decent used stock. 50% drop! Imho I can't see that happening. Mind you a half price V8 F type would be nice These things always seem to have more inertia than you hope for 😞

You would imagine they would set up for one size fits all and it probably doesn't make economic sense to drag around half your battery pack uncharged. Sounds like a couple of tonnes of extra mass to shift. Not being a truck driver, I always assumed they filled up to the brim (assuming they had the time), so I am only guessing that perhaps they don't?

I wonder what happens when you only want half a tank? I imagine that there will be a bank of fully charged mega batteries, rather than the inefficient idea of hauling a huge battery pack around with only partial charge.