Graham Butcher

Good question, I don't think that there is any restrictions currently, but I won't know as I have never used them, someone will have the answer I'm sure.

@wyx087 Sorry but I'm not ducking any question, also I have never indicated that EV's are not a possible solution. I'm saying that the compulsion is the wrong way to effect the change, there is still a lot of room to improve the technology still further to make all aspects of EVs safer from the mining of the minerals through to the adoption of them as the only means of transportation. EVs don't have any tailpipe emissions is correct, but they are not squeaky clean either, they also have tyre emissions, and some brake emissions, granted they use regen braking so brake dust is less. But in this country at least, a lot of the energy that we stuff the battery with is going to be produced by the burning of fossil fuels for many years to come. Westminster is granting loads more oil drilling platforms for the North Sea. UK defies climate warnings with new oil and gas licences - BBC News So in essence this will mean the same amounts (more or less) of CO2 and NOX etc will be produced by power stations generating the power for EVs and all that concentration of pollution will be at various locations across the UK, rather than dispersed across the country. Both ICE and BEV owners / drivers will, for some time to come, be contributing to global warming and air quality. Do you agree that the air quality on the London Underground, is many times worse than the air at the surface, and yet, there are no internal combustion engines on the tube network, so is the car really such a bad thing seeing as there are hundreds of thousands of all types of cars, ICE and BEVs on the roads, and yet the air quality is better at ground level than on the tubes. How does that fit in with Net Zero? I suppose the real question is, "Are we being told the real truth" about the push towards BEVs.

It is not 100% certain, he says it is unlikely to have been an EV, we will have to wait for the official forensic report in a few years time to be sure. But lets assume it was an ICE car, it just goes to show just how badly designed these carriers are that a fire can rage along a whole level with no fire doors or whatever to compartmentalise them to help prevent such an event. Lessons will hopefully be learned, and future ships have safety improvements incorporated. We also presume that the ship did deploy the massive CO2 systems that it was fitted with to suppress the fire.

Many thanks for the speedy replues and as I'm typing this, I'm also unzipping the files into a folder ready for installing in the car. I just thought I'd better check the correct way before risking bricking the system.

I'm not feeling threatened in the slightest bit, what I was rather hoping is that you others who appear hell-bent on kind of denying that we are entering into what is increasingly looking like being dominated by BEV's, landscape these events will become far more commonplace and your balanced holistic view will long have flown out the window because almost every car will in time be a BEV so the chances of seeing a car which has entered in runaway mode, or the chances of your car becoming an innocent victim of a similar event while parked in a parking spot will have increased by a significant factor. Yes the odds of a BEV going into the runaway mode on its own are slim, but it does indeed happen and if I park next to another ICE car, the chances of my car sustaining damage are far lower if the other car catches fire, then it would if that other car was a BEV in runaway mode, subjecting my car to the sustained jets of fire being emitted from the others batteries at low level as shown in some of the videos. That is all I've ever wanted people to acknowledge is that the future not as cosy looking as some people seem to be thinking it is. I and many other people I'm sure would rather we solve this problem properly before making it compulsory that all new cars in 2030 must either be hybrid and BEVs. As I'm sure I've already mentioned that we were led to believe that diesel was the answer to all problems and was the saviour of the world, a few years ago. Now we know that was a massive mistake and many people got badly burnt in the wallet 😉 by that as the diesel cars are more expensive and still are, and BEV's and hybids of all kinds are also more expensive and history is looking like its repeating itself all over again.

Which version will I need? Is this just a folder name that I have to unzip them to, or is it a particular version and if so, how is this done?

Here you go again, I have NEVER denied what you are saying is true but look at the way BEV shoot high pressure jets of fire outwards, not upwards when that failure mode is reached. Then factor in the chances of other BEVs being close to that and being caught on fire as a result. The batteries are low down where the jets of fire are, and then you should be able to understand the serious nature of a chain reaction taking place with a massive chance of lethal consequences for both life and limb, as well as building structures. If you need reminding, look at how the fire spread rapidly at the Grenfell Tower block and the huge loss of human life, and the building is also awaiting demolition. The chances of such a disaster increases with more BEVs coming on the road and towards 2030 there is a good chance of more BEVs than ICEs so that likelihood is greatly enhanced. I understand that you have a tesla, and I'm very happy and pleased that you like it, and you are unlikely to have any troubles with it, just as I am with my ICE as such incidents are rare but given the choice, I'd feel far safer in my diesel car in a terrible crash then I would in a BEV as diesel is very hard to burn but IF that battery compartment suffers and the batteries go into that state while you are either trapped or struggling to get out, your chances of survival just took a massive nosedive, sorry. Is because the fire brigades can see beyond your short-sightedness that they are conducting these tests as they get to see first hand far more car fires than you, or I will ever see in a lifetime, and it takes a lot to get them worried, but BEVs have managed to do that.

It is likely that your phone charge lead has a fault and has shorted out internally and the fuse blew before a fire started. I had a charging lead left plugged in but not connected to a phone by one of my sons in the old car, and I could smell smoke before I could see it. Pulled over and investigated and discovered trapped between the seat and the centre console, before it could get hot enough to become a fire. Never ever leave anything plugged in when not in use and certainly not when the car is unattended, it is just asking for trouble.

I have just downloaded the latest map dates for my car, using the VIN to ensure the correct version. This is a zipped file, does this need to be unzipped before trying to install the new maps, or does the Columbus do that as well as part of the process?

The true picture is this and there are plenty of links below that explain just how a EV can be both a normal car fire in the same way as an ICE car and be safely dealt with in precisely the same way, i.e., water or a blanket and the effectiveness is the same so just because an EV is on fire does not mean it requires any special treatment in the early stages of the fire. What can make EV cars more dangerous is the level of charge with in the battery and if the battery itself is the cause of the fire or has become compromised as a result of the heating effect of the "normal" fire and is entering its thermal runaway phase. Yes, the internet is awash with examples of batteries in the open, not sealed into water and airtight containers, and these batteries just have a flash and then burn. Once they enter thermal runaway when in that sealed container, they ARE then extremely dangerous, and it is when they are in this state that they are posing a far, far greater threat to life and also structures than ICE cars ever will. This is similar to the explosives in a bomb, remove the sealed steel casing and those explosives are far less dangerous. These links are only a few and I have found many more and these are not videos made by some random YouTube bloggers, they are in the main made by fire experts, i.e, fire brigades and research centre trying to learn more about how to deal with them when things go wrong. Anyone watching these and paying attention to what the experts are saying and then disagrees that EVs as we currently know them are very dangerous indeed is in denial of the truth. (541) Examples of Lithium Battery Fires - YouTube (544) Is Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP/LiFePO4) Safer? - YouTube (541) Can Lithium-ion Battery Fires be Extinguished: Small/Medium Devices - YouTube (541) Fighting EV car fires with the FIRE ISOLATOR concept - Live testing UPDATED VERSION - YouTube (544) Controlling and fighting EV car fires with the Fire Isolator concept - live demonstration March 2022 - YouTube (544) Do Firefighting Tools for Extinguishing Electric Vehicle Fires Really Work? - YouTube (544) Electric Vehicle Fires: Let It Burn - YouTube (544) Does Submerging Electric Vehicle Fires Work? - YouTube (544) Vehicle Fire Data: Electric vs. Combustion - YouTube (544) Why Tesla Fires are Impossible to Put Out - YouTube (544) Lithium-ion Battery Fires: Full Charge vs. Low Charge - YouTube

@lol-lolTotally agree with you, but the blanket needs to be there very early on in the fire especially if the fire is not actually in the battery, in that case it is no different in how you treat it to a ICE fire, water or as you say a blanket as it will cut the oxygen off from the fire and the fire will die out. Once the battery is comprised, it is game over, current lithium batteries do not need oxygen to burn and as a matter of fact, they will generate oxygen during the burning process due to the chemical reactions.

Browsing the internet just now while I'm downloading the latest maps for the Superb's Columbus on the laptop and this suggested video was presented to me on YT and you can understand why when send a parcel by Royal Mail they ask if there are any batteries in it before they accept it. Edit. It also now seems according to this video that e scooters are banned from the TFL network, does that also include London Buses I wonder??

@tootI thought it was a wind up 🤣

So why the mention of the minis being loaded onto level 8 then?

I was clearly referring to people killing themselves via car exhausts being fed into the cabin via hosepipes etc. And also the parking in open spaces was as mentioned, for damaged cars awaiting repairs after being involved in accidents, not normal parking. 😠

If this speculation about investigations started when the ship was moored in Eemshaven are correct, then it begs the question as to why was it allowed to sail?

Is that a fact then, all the reports I have seen suggest that it was all loaded up in Germany, no mention of the UK.

Oh for goodness’ sake, stop taking everything out of context, please.

He also said that there was a strong chance that EV cars had nothing to with the fire, it has not been proved to be the case.

Oh good grief, in order to do that before anything else is brought into the fire, you have to get the blanket there, you have to have good access all round the vehicle and you still need thousands of litres of water to keep the entire blanket cooled. The blanket does not starve the fire of oxygen as some may think as the battery chemicals release vast amounts of oxygen as part of the fire. All the blanket is doing is trying to prevent the fire spreading any further.

I 100% agree with what you say, and I never said that it was an EV that started any of these ship fires, so perhaps everyone can now delete that thought from their minds, please. However, it is still a fact that when an EV battery goes into thermal runaway they are exceedingly dangerous and the venting gases are not only highly toxic but burn like a rocket motor shooting flames out sideways, igniting anything within range. The internet is awash with reports and videos from all over the world from fire brigades explaining the problems that these vehicles create, normal car fires can be extinguished with ease, sadly that is not the case with EV and also leave behind massive volumes of highly toxic water etc that also adds further issues EV cars are LESS likely to catch fire than a ICE car, but when they do, they can be a real nightmare to deal with, surely people can see that for themselves.

Correct, it is not certain what caused either fires but crew members of the Fremantle Highway are supposed to have said that it was started by an EV though and judging by the inside photos of the aftermath it will be difficult to confirm either way. An interesting fact though, both the Felicity Ace and the Fremantle Highway had both departed the same port in Germany and were carrying German cars which included EVs. FA had both VW and Audi EVs, numbers not disclosed, and the FH also had EVs but so far what make has not been revealed, but it was originally claimed it only had 25 on board but was subsequently increased to 498 on board. Also of interest YMMV, is that there has been fires on board such ships in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2 in 2019, 2020, 2022, and 2 in 2023.

It is that high energy sidewise venting of fumes, toxins and fire that is possibly causing so many nasty fires on these car-carrying ships whereas ICE vehicles the flames are more or less going straight up and the EV's with the earlier battery types are creating chain effects with their blowtorch effect. This is also the reason why Thatcham are now saying that accident damaged EV's are to be stored outside and at least 15 metres away from other vehicles or objects etc.

I haven't heard of that sort of thing going on lately, although if my memory serves me right, it was a regular event in the Thatcher years. Maybe it is still happening, but the media don't report it anymore?

The thing is that I have stored among my many hard drives of many TBs tons of referencing evidences to I think back up all of my claims apart from the EV's not being allowed into these upmarket apartments that are springing up all along the Thames now of which some colleagues have told me about and I see no reason why they should be telling me lies. One said that his neighbour was complaining because the landlord had made him park his PHEV Range Rover outside and away from the building because of the insurance stipulations on the building. I just don't have the time to go trawling through the drives looking for them at the present moment. Now if your reference to the main stream media means TV and newspapers, well I gave up on those years ago since they became effectively muted by those that seek to control the narrative and treat us all like mushrooms and thus use the MSN to manipulate us in whatever fashion suits their purpose. I can't remember the last time I read a newspaper or watched the news, just to be fed a bunch of lies.😉