I'm occasionally given to fits of madness. I like to visit my favourite discussion forums, put on my flame-proof suit, and post something controversial. Not really trolling, but something which will provoke an interesting debate.

I'm going to say some controversial stuff now. If you don't want to read it, click "back" on your browser

I own an Octavia vRS. Beautiful car. Great build quality, fantastic spec and all for a low price. The Fabia vRS promises to offer the same. However, can we really consider these cars to be "performance" or "sports" models?

Let's face reality for a moment. Vauxhall make a Zafira that's faster than the Octy, and the Fabia will be less "hot hatch" and more "reasonably-warm-for-a-February-afternoon-hatch"

Are these cars really worthy of having their own special badge? OK, they're fine for buzzing old biddies in their Micras, but put them up against anything serious, and they're found distinctly lacking.

I'm not talking about tuned or modded cars here. In my opinion, you either shouldn't have to tune the car to get the best out of it, or if you do, then there should be manufacturer-approved options for doing so.

So, back to the question. Are these two models really deserving of their own special badge? In my opinion, they aren't, and won't be until Skoda UK pull their fingers out.

Here endeth the lesson.

But are any "sports" incarnations of family runabouts really ever going to be

sporty?

The Zafira GSi (or whatever it's called) may be fast, but the fact is it's still a

heavy van and will handle as such. For many manufacturers, a "sports"

badge simply means you get a body kit, with the engine being as standard.

So while the Skoda RSs may not set the world alight in terms of performance,

for an all round brisk family car it represents fantastic value for money.

Whether they're worthy of the badge or not is mostly irrelevant, it's all

just marketing nonsense anyway

Rob.

I think the important point about how the "RS" and how it compares to others, is it's price!

I don't think there is much "at that price level" that can compare.

Perhaps the Witchfinder is a 'daddy cool' wannabe?

Originally posted by SilveRS in this post

Perhaps the Witchfinder is a 'daddy cool' wannabe?

While I admit to occasionally slotting Boney-M into the CD player, I can't say I especially want to drive what amounts to a van with windows.

I'm expressing disappointment at the "stock" performance of the vRS (particularly the forthcoming Fabia), and the insistence of Skoda UK on "no mods or your warranty is invalid".

As for the price range - you can get a pre-facelift Scooby for about 15 or 16K now. 17 K will get you an Astra (Yeah, I know - :dung: ) that'll beat a stock vRS, and will cost you less on insurance. Prices on a lot of new motors are rapidly descending...

However, the Scoob is not as practical as the RS - you can't even fit internal

house doors in it!

Not that this is really a justification for giving the Octavia an RS badge...

Rob.

but if you hunt then you can get RS octavia's even cheaper..

RRP against RRP, the RS is just over 15k, the Scoob just over 20k.

Performance against performance, there is not 5k's worth in it, plus better build quality, warranty, toys etc?

I'm not picking on the scoob, but is it 5grand better?

For 15-16k on a 2nd hand car I'd have a Porker!

If we are talking new cars, what would you say is "proper" sporting at that price point? Some options:

Civic Type R - Pretty nippy, looks like a MPV thats been through a hot wash, a good car, possibly sporty, but not really any more so than a RS

Leon Cupra - Same engine and running gear as the RS. Less practical, not as fast, doesn't handle as well

Caterham / Westfield - yep they are sports cars

So, for me the RS wins as it is more practical.

Does it justify a special badge? Yes, to differentiate it from "lesser" models. It does have sport suspension, it does have bigger wheels and brakes, it does have more power, it has sports seats.

Do I care? Not a jot, that's why mine has a 1.4 16V badge. If people are that interested in badges, let them go buy their Subaordhallishida Turbo Nutter ****** GXLi Quad Cam 4x4 Sport Monster Type R VIII Limited Edition RS Superlight

Just hope its got a boot big enough for the badge!

..and, for those of us that *do* like to modify, we can play with things way beyond the octavia's price point.

Saw an interesting article in Autocar a few weeks ago. It was trying to explain VAGs platform sharing policy and product placement.

Cars compared where Skoda Octavia RS, Seat Leon Cupra, Golf R32 and Audio S3. It began saying that initially it was difficult to see how you can have some many cars using the same platform, engine etc and then justify the price differences. Eventually it cam eto the conclusion that VAG new what it was doing and that you could justify the price differences.

The RS was deemd to be an introduction to the a sporty VAG followed by the R32 then Audi. Biggest loser here was the Seat as they didn't see the point of having it.

IMHO there's nothing to compare with the RS pound for pound. Some might say the Seat but it's not as well built;just check out CupraNet. The Zaffira is more expensive as is the Astra GSI (I think) but at the end of the day they're just Vauxhalls. I know that Skoda come from a relatively humble past (recent) but I believe they are a cut-above the Vauxhalls and Fords of this world. Going further back it can be argued that Skoda built the best cars in the world before the advent of Communism in Czechoslovakia (sp.).

The RS is not the fastest, not the cheapest, not the best looking etc but there something for everyone.

I like it anyway:D

WitchFinder: excellent thread starter.

Cheers.

Adrian.

While I admit to occasionally slotting Boney-M into the CD player, I can't say I especially want to drive what amounts to a van with windows.

Oh dear, what can I say? The signs are starting to show. You'll be trading in your vRS for a Zafira GSi before you know it.

I'm expressing disappointment at the "stock" performance of the vRS (particularly the forthcoming Fabia), and the insistence of Skoda UK on "no mods or your warranty is invalid".

On a more serious note I agree with the warranty situation but would say that you have got used to the performance, like I have. It is only when you drive a normally aspirated car that you will then appreciate how much better the vRS is.

As for 'worthy of the badge', I think TaviaRS summed it up.

Ford produced a track day car with was probably very worthy of the RS badge, but it got slated for poor road manners on uneven roads and brutish power delivery.

The Zafira GSI may seem a good buy, but I think many people in here will know that the Zafira finished ROCK BOTTOM in at least two JD POWER surveys of three year old cars I've seen. And if I'm not mistaken the Octavia was in number 6 and the Fabia somewhere like number 8 (out of 120 models) So the GSI may all poncy when new with its DVD player and fancy wheels/engine, but they're absolute :dung: in the long-run

TaviaRS, that monkey of yours must be well spanked by now.

Regardless of their different perfomances, dont you just think its an extension of "Badge snobbery".

Would you be happy if all Octy,s had the same markings, or just had a universal marking on them?

Its exactly the same reason BMW is selling more 3 series in the Uk than Ford is selling Mondeo,s.

Ok so the performance compared to "real " sports cars isnt that hot, but then the world of "real" sports cars is inhabited by people with money to burn, or just lots of luck. You bought your vRS because you aspire to that peformance level, and the car reflects a sportier look, it just so happens though that you car is far better on the value for money stakes.

Of course you could always sell your house and put the money on a TVR, or Ferrari, Masserati or something else exotic, but you wont because you wouldnt be able to live in it or keep the family happy..... so you have to dream like all of us.

Which is where you get the family cars sported up.

I understand where your coming from, dont get me wrong, but I just think the "dream" effect should be allowed to flourish.

Of course, if you feel the need to want to sell your house and send me the money, I will gladly buy myself a Masserati, and if you ask nicely I will take you for a spin.

Cheers

Good topic - everyone has their own reason for buying their car. Must admit for me the major seller was that it was a fun car with reasonable performance and .......... it has a large boot (a necessity for me as need to carry 4 people and their kit including a goalkeepers kit). Most cars are a compromise of sorts and the RS fitted my criteria .... and for

Well, I certainly seem to have achieved my goal and provoked some interesting discussion. If I'm really honest with you all, and with myself, I don't really want to be driving an Octavia vRS - I want to be driving an M3. However, buying a car is a practical business, unless you happen to have money to burn (which I don't). The Octy has most of what I want at the right price, I just find myself yearning for that bit more "oomph"...

Can the Octy or the forthcoming Fabia remain competetive in it's price range? The Civic Type-R is an excellent car, and not all that far above the Octavia for price. They're different tyes of car, but still competing in the same demographic group. The Fabia vRS is going up against the likes of the Corsa SRi, which has better performance figures and is cheaper. You and I know Vauxhalls are crap, but does everyone else?

Like it or not, Skoda are still struggling against "that image", and are only successful in countering it through keen pricing. Take that advantage away, and Skoda may find themselves in trouble.

Originally posted by Kentish in this post

Of course you could always sell your house and put the money on a TVR, or Ferrari, Masserati or something else exotic, but you wont because you wouldnt be able to live in it or keep the family happy..... so you have to dream like all of us.

Second hand TVR won't set you back much more than 15K, although you'd probably find yourself walking to work one day in five :p

Originally posted by TaviaRS in this post

For 15-16k on a 2nd hand car I'd have a Porker!

Nice choice, although you'd be looking at a pretty old example!

Does it justify a special badge? Yes, to differentiate it from "lesser" models. It does have sport suspension, it does have bigger wheels and brakes, it does have more power, it has sports seats.

Ahhhh... But is it really that special? We already have "Classic", "Comfort", "Elegance" and "Laurin & Klement". Does "vRS" promise more than it really delivers? Don't you think that to be truly worthy of the image the badge conjures, it should have 4WD and 225PS "out of the box"? I'd have paid anything up to 1 or 2K more for that...

Do I care? Not a jot, that's why mine has a 1.4 16V badge.

I suspect your 1.4 16V badge has more to do with the fact that you like freaking out drivers of rep-mobiles :drive: Like it or not though, people are sold on image. If they weren't, you could get away with something like this:

Octavia "Basic"

Octavia "Slightly Nicer"

Octavia "A Lot Nicer"

Octavia "Nicest One We Do And Has Leather Seats"

Octavia "Sporty"

Octavia "Coffin Dodger Wagon With Four-Wheel-Drive" (sorry, couldn't resist )

If people are that interested in badges, let them go buy their Subaordhallishida Turbo Nutter ****** GXLi Quad Cam 4x4 Sport Monster Type R VIII Limited Edition RS Superlight

As long as it delivers on the promise (for around

Originally posted by Witchfinder in this post

Can the Octy or the forthcoming Fabia remain competetive in it's price range? The Civic Type-R is an excellent car, and not all that far above the Octavia for price. They're different tyes of car, but still competing in the same demographic group. The Fabia vRS is going up against the likes of the Corsa SRi, which has better performance figures and is cheaper. You and I know Vauxhalls are crap, but does everyone else?

The Civic Type-R may only be slightly more expensive to buy,

but the running costs are pretty much up with the Scooby!

As for the Corsa SRi - performance figures are one thing, how

it drives is another. On paper, the Vectra 1.8LS is probably

quicker than my Octavia 1.6, but it's really really sluggish

on the motorways.

And as for the Astra 2.2 Coupe - incredibly uncomfortable,

did not have any thrust and did not cope with top end cruising

as well as the 1.6 Octavia. And remember both these Vauxhalls

were hire cars, so I wasn't being gentle on them...

Rob.

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Originally posted by TaviaRS in this post

For 15-16k on a 2nd hand car I'd have a Porker!

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[Witchfinder wrote:]

Nice choice, although you'd be looking at a pretty old example!

Nick says:

Porker doesn't have to mean 911 derivative - you can get a very nice 928 S4 or GTS for that money

Originally posted by ncarring in this post

Porker doesn't have to mean 911 derivative - you can get a very nice 928 S4 or GTS for that money

I had a quick look on Autotrader and couldn't find much in the

There's a few GTs - arguably the best 928 of all - and some S4s. Admittedly the GTSs which are on there at present are more money, but they do come up every now and then.

Depends what you mean by old, too - the 928 ceased production in 1995 - that might rule it out from your point of view ... I don't know. Mine is 20 years old this year, too old to be a daily driver really.

I've often wondered what weekend car I'd buy if I came into some money unexpectedly. If I had up to 10K to spend, I'd probably get an early 80's Lotus Esprit.

Anyway, it's a moot point. I think my best option is going to be to save up for a trip to Jabba. Sod the warranty

Well you only need

Originally posted by ncarring in this post

Well you only need