Do you have a Dragon Box on your Superb?

[allclownsareevi]

Alright B's and G's,

Ok so I was wondering how many Superb owners are using or have used a Dragon Tuning Box and what are your experiences of them? Just interested that's all, for comparison really ... there doesn't seem to be many Dragon'd Superbs around.

If you've got one post it up. Is it any good? Performance increased much? Economy dropped at all? Encounter any problems with it? Engine deriative would be helpful.

I'll kick it off by copying and pasting from another thread:

1.9TDi Classic 130bhp.

Mine kicks in a difference at 1800 revs. Basically from what I can feel through the car is that it either throws more fuel/air through the engine or more likely ups the turbo pressure. It makes a fair bit of difference even though it's reasonably subtle. It's ever so slightly annoying when just gently accelerating around town because you hit 1800 revs and the car shunts forward just a tad. It's a really slight effect but you can just feel it. Passengers probably can't but as the driver, I can. Like you just pressed the throttle down slightly .... only you didn't, the box just ordered up a tiny bit of extra ummph. So far that's the only criticism and it's a small one.

Other than that it's fine. On motorways the car feels more responsive and it's nice when you're overtaking. From 30-70mph in 3rd gear is fun, takes around 4 seconds. 30mph in 3rd is about 1825revs so you sink your right foot into the carpet, give it half a second for the turbo to wake up and you're off. Gives you a lot more confidence when overtaking ... and encourages passengers to buckle up.

Economically, there's not too much difference. Drive it sensibly and my ecu still reports around 57mpg on a combined journey (50 mile trip, 40 miles of it are motorway the rest on A and B roads). In the real world you can probably equate that to 52mpg seeming as all speedos will over read the speed and hence any mpg reading taken can be reduced by 3-4mpg.

Now, DragonPerformance reckon their boxes actually increase mpg but the laws of physics tell me different and I find this a little dubious .... I mean more power and better economy? Just doesn't make sense to me. You're burning more fuel any way you look at it. Even if the turbo is simply shovelling more air into the cyclinders it still uses more fuel to get the mixture right. BUT having said that my ecu is reading either exactly the same figures or even slightly higher. In my mind I reckon it probably reduced the mpg by 1 or 2 mpg but who knows. Either way it's more power for little drop in economy. So yeah when it says 57.3mpg I reckon it's more like 51/52 maybe? Still not bad.

Would be interested in anyone elses "review" of their Dragon box too, for comparison. Haven't fooled with the jumper settings yet. I have a silver 7 jumpered version and no documentation so no idea what they do. Haven't seen any Superb owners spill the beans on theirs, would be good to read through a few posts on it.

Cheers

Edited 25 September, 2008 by allclownsareevi

[Supurbia]

Personally I wouldn't use one, a re map is the way to increase BHP cos it tells everything to pull it's socks up, a tuning box iirc just overfuels the car, like advancing the ign timing on old cars with a distributor.

[Octygone]

They do work here is a rolling road printout

[Bluefox]

175bhp? Hmm.

*muses*

[Baker21]

Fluffy has one on his Superb...........

[Octygone]

Some superbs with dragon boxes on do something like this

[Supurbia]

Some superbs with dragon boxes on do something like this

Err, no they don't, the guy has replied and its a K&N and a Map

And looking at it it looks like about 6.5 seconds, not a bad effort.

[allclownsareevi]

Ok well look at it this way, that youtube guy has a remap and reckons it gives 170bhp. Octygone has a Dragon box and got 175.5bhp.

Somehow I'm dubious mine is giving 175 bhp. Probably 165 - 170 perhaps? Not sure. Maybe it is giving 175, without a rolling road I don't know ... and I don't care. It's a number.

I'm guessing a remap gives slightly better results. However the difference between a remap and a Dragon box is probably 3 or 4 bhp. The reason I opted for a Dragon Box was twofold. Firstly, the price difference. I didn't want to pay an extra £250 for an additional 3 or 4 bhp. Secondly, a remap is software based. It means if I change my mind and want to return the car back to stock setup I can remove the box and sell it. I can't sell a remap. So the box was the way to go. If it turned out to be a load of rubbish I could resell it and maybe then try a remap. But so far I'm happy with it.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but some people will go to a lot of extra cost for a really small increase in power. Maybe its because their car is kinda their pet hobby, but then again I've known some lads who do it almost just for the "boasting rights". You get the same with PC's. They'll spend £350 on a graphics card that is 4% better than something half the price.

So I guess I'm either just very logical and pragmatic ... or more likely, quite pikey.

Edited 27 September, 2008 by allclownsareevi

[Octygone]

Err, no they don't, the guy has replied and its a K&N and a Map

And looking at it it looks like about 6.5 seconds, not a bad effort.

strangely enough it's the same person i.e. me ..........the map (AMD one click) wasn't as powerful as the dragon box...so I am not sure what the 0 to 60 was with that but not far different. I have got a rolling road for the AMD if anyone wants,

took someone out once and he reckoned the last time he felt acceleration like that he was taking of in a jet

ps the K&N doesn't make a lot of difference .....just less smoke:rolleyes:

here it is

Edited 27 September, 2008 by Octygone

[allclownsareevi]

So out of curiosity, what differences have you noticed between the Dragon and remap? Is the acceleration smoother? Broader power band through the rev range maybe?

Just wondering.

Edited 27 September, 2008 by allclownsareevi

[Octygone]

Dragon was sort of rough and ready ...almost like a switch on or off....AMD one click was lot smother and seemed to have a wider power band and it had acceleration just where needed for overtaking 50mph plus .....but the reason for the AMD ...it was part of a group buy for £300 ....both were fun though

[allclownsareevi]

Yeah I can imagine what you mean about the switch on or off. Like I said earlier at 1800rpm it does kick in on mine ... and you can feel it just a little when it does.

If the AMD was £300 then I may go for it one day. For now happy enough fooling with the Dragon though.

[Supurbia]

Ok, all I'm trying to say here is tuning boxes in general ramp it up in certain parts of the engine, where a map will tell everything to work with each other in the same way as the OEM software does, plus a lot of the Vectra owners have had all sorts of hassle with tuning boxes, at the end of the day you pays your money you takes your choice, me personally I'd never fit one to anything I still had money outstanding on or in warranty, btw the Vectra ones aren't always Dragon ones, so please don't read this as Dragon are cr4p, it's just to me if you want to up the power doing a box is like fitting a bumper where a map is like fitting a full body kit.

[allclownsareevi]

I wasn't taking offence man.

As for tuning boxes being a hit and miss affair I agree. I tried to read a fair bit about them and the general concensus was that a lot of boxes can be hazardous to your engine. Dragon's seemed to be one of the better examples out there, so I went for it.

Remap maybe on the cards some day but for now I can't justify spending the cash on it. Interested to have a drive of someone elses remapped Superb first too. Any offers? :P

[Octygone]

I wasn't taking offence man.

As for tuning boxes being a hit and miss affair I agree. I tried to read a fair bit about them and the general concensus was that a lot of boxes can be hazardous to your engine. Dragon's seemed to be one of the better examples out there, so I went for it.

Remap maybe on the cards some day but for now I can't justify spending the cash on it. Interested to have a drive of someone elses remapped Superb first too. Any offers? :P

Mine is long gone ....don't forget that the Dragon will get better over about a month as the car gets used to it

[Supurbia]

Mine is long gone ....don't forget that the Dragon will get better over about a month as the car gets used to it

Ther's a quicker way, have the neg lead off overnight, in the morning the ecu will start afresh

[Octygone]

Ther's a quicker way, have the neg lead off overnight, in the morning the ecu will start afresh

That works with a remap but with the Dragon the ecu still has to learn what to do with the extra fuel and it'll take at least a month to get itself right..... I have had 3 cars with dragon boxes so I know it's just something that has to be done

[allclownsareevi]

That works with a remap but with the Dragon the ecu still has to learn what to do with the extra fuel and it'll take at least a month to get itself right..... I have had 3 cars with dragon boxes so I know it's just something that has to be done

Not saying you're wrong but I kinda figured that as the Dragon box is wired in series, post ecu, I figured the ECU wouldn't even recognise it was there. You know, like the ECU sends it's signal and then the Dragon takes that signal and does it's magic.

So you say the ecu needs to settle down. Any idea what the effect is over the month? I mean does the drive begin to smooth out or does the power begin to slowly increase?

Does the radio begin tuning into Radio 1's Essential Selection to complete the chav appeal?

Edited 27 September, 2008 by allclownsareevi

[Bluefox]

Dragon was sort of rough and ready ...almost like a switch on or off....AMD one click was lot smother and seemed to have a wider power band and it had acceleration just where needed for overtaking 50mph plus .....but the reason for the AMD ...it was part of a group buy for £300 ....both were fun though

I think this is the reason I'll be saving for a remap. If I wasn't planning on keeping the car, or indeed spending money on other mods in the future (hybrid, FMIC, turbo-back exhaust etc) I'd go for a Dragon box.

Seemingly they're very good though - I just think I'll leave mine stock until I can afford the other mods and aim for 200bhp+.

[Bluefox]

Does the radio begin tuning into Radio 1's Essential Selection to complete the chav appeal?

[allclownsareevi]

Seemingly they're very good though - I just think I'll leave mine stock until I can afford the other mods and aim for 200bhp+.

200+ .... nice. Interested to see how that goes, keep us updated man ... and don't blow the turbo yeah.

[Octygone]

Not saying you're wrong but I kinda figured that as the Dragon box is wired in series, post ecu, I figured the ECU wouldn't even recognise it was there. You know, like the ECU sends it's signal and then the Dragon takes that signal and does it's magic.

So you say the ecu needs to settle down. Any idea what the effect is over the month? I mean does the drive begin to smooth out or does the power begin to slowly increase?

Does the radio begin tuning into Radio 1's Essential Selection to complete the chav appeal?

That's the problem in a nutshel there is NO communication between the Dragon and the ECU but the Dragon fools the engine into accepting more fuel and it takes a while for the ECU to sort out what to do with it, hence the month ...it just gets better and better......try it on a normal car ....drive to a rolling road day and fit the Dragon in the car park and get it tested ....leave it on for a month and take it back to the same place and test again I am almost willing to bet it will significantly different.......not sure about the radio though .....mine is allergic to Radio 1:rofl:

[Bluefox]

200+ .... nice. Interested to see how that goes, keep us updated man ... and don't blow the turbo yeah.

Dammit, you've seen part of my plan...

(blown turbo = excuse for a hybrid!)

[Bluefox]

....not sure about the radio though .....mine is allergic to Radio 1:rofl:

There is sometimes good stuff on Radio 1 tbh, but it's usually after 7pm. Everything beforehand tends to be rubbish.

INIT BRUV?!?!?

[Supurbia]

That's the problem in a nutshel there is NO communication between the Dragon and the ECU but the Dragon fools the engine into accepting more fuel

Thankyou twas exactly my original point :thumbup: