The penalties do , yet again , seem to have been arranged to give the Ferraris the advantage and now you have a precedent set where you can get a penalty for not letting someone overtake you even though you didn't make any contact.

Glad to see the Red cars getting another helping hand :thumbdwn:

Where will it stop, soon they will just be following each other round so not to upset anyone. :thumbdwn:

Ok firstly the Picture posted is alittle late in the proceedings, take a look at this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H5KReYtyew the actual problem comes from Hamilton out breaking himself and going straight on effectively not allowing Kimmi to turn in and forcing Kimmi to break, this allows Kova to get along side as he has to break and all three go off, Lewis rejoins in 3rd and Kova and Kimmi much further back, because of the lunge that for me stank of pure desperation LH effectively pushed three cars off himself being one, as he rejoined a few places further up the order then the other two he effectively gained an advantage so I can see why he was given a penalty but as stated by others I cannot ever remember this happening before anywhere so its a strange one unless they are clamping down on it I'm not sure the FIA would need to clarify this.

Massa's Lunge on LH was a disgrace, I can only think he was doing it with intent to end lewis's race, he was never getting back past, the fact he was on the kerbing rather then between the two solid lines is mute as nowadays they seem to be allowed to use the kerb rather then the lines, again Massa's Lunge stank of desperation and for me should of resulted in Massa being disqualified from the race.

Boudais leaving the pits for me fine once again a desperate I must pass him now move was made and for me I cant fault Bourdais for holding his line, he didn't impeach massa at anytime he just stayed on line and for me that penalty was unjust and a un warranted.

For me today I think LH and Massa both stank of desperation, I said previously that if Alonso where in a top team or Shumi was still around the Championship would be won and over by now, as for who deserves to win the championship as referred to by another well that would be Vettel, he is the only guy who deserves it! but hey its out of Massa and LH and I can only hope that its Massa because of my Allegiance to Ferrari however I think Macca and Ferrari have not done themselves many favor's this year.

Im not saying Ham's move was great but the precident this sets is crazy, how many moves by senna, mansell, shuey would have been penalised by this? if a driver is locks up / out brakes / over cooks it without contact there is no history of penalty in any form of motorsport.

Massa got what he deserves, ironically given ham's self inficted flat spots massa never needed to make what i beleive was a "red mist" contact.

The Bourdais episode is really really sad it destroys F1 in my book. Contrary to what somethinnk I am a Ferrari fan, as an ex owner it pains me to watch Enzo's name dragged through th mud over the past couple of seasons by Mosley / Todt and whatever their weasle like agenda dictates.

In the same way that I was glad Ham didnt win the championship last year as it would have been tainted I feel Massa winning this year would be the same.

Im not saying Ham's move was great but the precident this sets is crazy, how many moves by senna, mansell, shuey would have been penalised by this? if a driver is locks up / out brakes / over cooks it without contact there is no history of penalty in any form of motorsport.

Massa got what he deserves, ironically given ham's self inficted flat spots massa never needed to make what i beleive was a "red mist" contact.

The Bourdais episode is really really sad it destroys F1 in my book. Contrary to what somethinnk I am a Ferrari fan, as an ex owner it pains me to watch Enzo's name dragged through th mud over the past couple of seasons by Mosley / Todt and whatever their weasle like agenda dictates.

In the same way that I was glad Ham didnt win the championship last year as it would have been tainted I feel Massa winning this year would be the same.

And not one referance to Bel anywhere! It may seem we finaly nearly agree?

And not one referance to Bel anywhere! It may seem we finaly nearly agree?

:P

I'm not talking about the single white line to feed the cars in, I'm talking about the red/white area the Massa drove through.

I think it was pretty obvious that Webber was "leaning" on Massa quite considerably and IMHO rather unnecessarily. He was about 1½ seconds a lap slower at that point than Massa with a very worn set of soft tyres.

Regarding Hamiltons suicide lunge at the first corner, I was amazed to see how much wear to the tyre that lock-up caused. When Massa turned him later in the lap, you could see from Hamiltons on-board camera that he'd worn right through the grooves.

Yet again Alonso profits from others misfortune, but he drove well and it's hard to believe how competitive the Renault has become lately. Forth place in the constructors championship should be theirs now.

Having just watched the re run of the start of the race Hamiltons penalty seems even more ridiculous, he outbreaked himself into the corner, made no contact with anyone and Kovi went for the gap (and as Redbaron pointed out earlier) forced Kimi wide.

Max is concerned about F1 costs in the current global financial problems, don't worry Max you won't have anyone watching soon if you keep on ruining the races.:confused:

I got up early. Shouted a bit down the phone to my mate watching it in Kuala Lumpur. Drank shed loads of coffee to stay awake.

Shouted a little more when the red team called in Ferrari International Assistance goons for penalties.

Got shouted at for waking up everyone else.

Now I'm wrecked and struggling to function through lack of sleep.....

Pretty good day.....

I get Lewis and Massa's penailties as valid. But Bourdais? Are they on drugs, watching a different race to everyone else?

And why no penalty for Massa using the pit exit to race/lean on webber? After all, Massa was VERY vocal about leaving the race track after Spa.....

Bourdais left the pits and remained inside the white line at the corner he was as near to or on the kerb as you could be, Massa hit him and spun. If Massa hit you up the rear at traffic lights I bet his insurers would claim you had reversed into him.

If Massa hit you up the rear at traffic lights I bet his insurers would claim you had reversed into him.

:rofl:

kimi already did that in canada.....

They are quite quickly killing this sport. Close racing has been banned

I thought, i should watch this, but missed it.

After reading this thread it seems like just another crock of **** that I'm actually glad I missed. Oh well.

IMHO it's about time all of the teams that are not `that team` just organise their own version and stick two up to `Das Führer`

Quite simply, A farce.:(

A classic comment from Bourdais.....

Sebastian Bourdais was penalised for colliding with the Ferrari while racing for position.

The Frenchman's Toro Rosso was on the inside of Turn One having just left the pits. The two cars touched in the centre of the corner as Massa tried to pass on the outside and the Ferrari spun.

Bourdais' date=' demoted from sixth to 10th, was mystified as to why he had been given a penalty.

"What was I supposed to do?" he asked. "Roll out the red carpet?"[/quote']

Full article at BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula One | Hamilton accuses Massa over crash

I really feel for Bordais, This season is a crock of **** :(

All drivers and teams were told in the circuit briefing Thursday, that cars exiting the pits have right of way.

Bourdais Fuji penalty against FIA advice. | F1 News

All drivers and teams were told in the circuit briefing Thursday, that cars exiting the pits have right of way.

Bourdais Fuji penalty against FIA advice. | F1 News

Ah, but you missed the small print in white ink, "unless it's bright red & Italian." Then you must hop over the nearest wall, incase you impeed his progress in any way.:rofl:

Hamilton:- "Everyone went wide [at the start] but for some reason I got a penalty for that. I can't understand that"

And the reason everyone went wide at the start was because Hamilton had gone in like the gung ho aggressor he is. If Schumacher had done that then he would have been berated by all the British press. Oh wait, he would have actually kept it under control. Hell, Hamilton nearly took out his own team mate. There is distinct evidence of double standards when it comes to judging hamilton's driving standards and those of others. He's aggressive and seriously arrogant when it comes to it which is just plain irritating, especially with that butter wouldn't melt look. I would however agree that Bourdais' penalty was not required as it was simply a racing incident with blame perhaps falling more towards Massa than Seb.

Hamilton likes to cry wolf all to often. He is of course hard done by and of course the media portray this with their usual impeccable balance. I seem to remember his father saying they had been treated unfairly after Monaco last year and it was their race to win. Sorry, but Alonso was in front and to win, you need to be in front. Hamilton wasn't and as such, didn't take the win. Give him a few more years and he may mature a bit but just now he is a little too media savvy for the maturity he is able to display.

And the reason everyone went wide at the start was because Hamilton had gone in like the gung ho aggressor he is. If Schumacher had done that then he would have been berated by all the British press. Oh wait, he would have actually kept it under control. Hell, Hamilton nearly took out his own team mate. There is distinct evidence of double standards when it comes to judging hamilton's driving standards and those of others. He's aggressive and seriously arrogant when it comes to it which is just plain irritating, especially with that butter wouldn't melt look. I would however agree that Bourdais' penalty was not required as it was simply a racing incident with blame perhaps falling more towards Massa than Seb.

Hamilton likes to cry wolf all to often. He is of course hard done by and of course the media portray this with their usual impeccable balance. I seem to remember his father saying they had been treated unfairly after Monaco last year and it was their race to win. Sorry, but Alonso was in front and to win, you need to be in front. Hamilton wasn't and as such, didn't take the win. Give him a few more years and he may mature a bit but just now he is a little too media savvy for the maturity he is able to display.

and how you your opinion justify the first penalty in history for "running wide" or "forcing a (red) car off the track" ?

consistency or the lack of it is the issue

Consistancy is alive and well.

Don't let the BLACK guy win, do what ever it takes it make that happen.

Is everyone on here wearing foil ****ing hats as well this week?! Consistency has always been an issue with the FIA going back YEARS...and not always towards Ferrari as some people currently seem to think... Conspiracy, conspiracy conspiracy...grow up!

I think this season we are seeing more penaltys because of the relative immaturity of the drivers, I keep saying it if Shumi or Alonso was in a winning car the title would of been wrapped months ago!.

It does annoy me how people are biast but thats life we see the best and ignore the worst in those we support and love, However it is becoming a joke recently with LH, Take redbarons picture for instance (im not having a pop mate), its a picture 4 seconds AFTER the actuel offence, Im seeing this kind of thing everywhere and to be blatently honest it does not make a good viewing it makes you think jeez are people realy that silly?, i mean most of us in these threads whatch it and those that dont prolly go off to youtube and see the incident in its whole, to show a pick of somin that supposedly makes LH innocent is starange, it was the same in Belgium, the drivers united in saying LH gained an advantage but somebody decided to take selective lines from the artcle to portray LH in good light, this takes time time we will never again live, its gone forever so why even bother trying, nobody is stupid enough to just see this and go with it.

the fact is LH and FM are immature and in a situation that they are not doing well at dealing with, throw in some FIA decisions and its the useal UK rubbish of OMG the world is against us, im glad our forefathers never had this attitude or we would all speak ****ing german!.

I get personaly abused on here for seeing it in the WHOLE picture rather then just having a guess its BS, if LH wins the drivers title it will be because Massa ****ed up, if Massa wins it it will be because LH ****ed it up, simple as that realy.

Its getting embarrassing to be honest we need to wake up and start being honest.......

I think this season we are seeing more penaltys because of the relative immaturity of the drivers, I keep saying it if Shumi or Alonso was in a winning car the title would of been wrapped months ago!.

It does annoy me how people are biast but thats life we see the best and ignore the worst in those we support and love, However it is becoming a joke recently with LH, Take redbarons picture for instance (im not having a pop mate), its a picture 4 seconds AFTER the actuel offence, Im seeing this kind of thing everywhere and to be blatently honest it does not make a good viewing it makes you think jeez are people realy that silly?, i mean most of us in these threads whatch it and those that dont prolly go off to youtube and see the incident in its whole, to show a pick of somin that supposedly makes LH innocent is starange, it was the same in Belgium, the drivers united in saying LH gained an advantage but somebody decided to take selective lines from the artcle to portray LH in good light, this takes time time we will never again live, its gone forever so why even bother trying, nobody is stupid enough to just see this and go with it.

the fact is LH and FM are immature and in a situation that they are not doing well at dealing with, throw in some FIA decisions and its the useal UK rubbish of OMG the world is against us, im glad our forefathers never had this attitude or we would all speak ****ing german!.

I get personaly abused on here for seeing it in the WHOLE picture rather then just having a guess its BS, if LH wins the drivers title it will be because Massa ****ed up, if Massa wins it it will be because LH ****ed it up, simple as that realy.

Its getting embarrassing to be honest we need to wake up and start being honest.......

"I think this season we are seeing more penaltys because of the relative immaturity of the drivers,"

Wrong, Senna & Prost got up to far more silly antics but the FIA didn't dole out silly penalties.

Shumi was even worse in his youth (yes he did deliberately ram Damon Hill, I watched it live & all the replays, it was that obvious) Again he was given some penalties but rarely.

As already said, never in the history of F1 has somebody been given a penalty for going into a corner too quickly, yes Hamilton got it wrong, but he didn't hit anyone or cause anyone to spin out.(look at the start of the Monza GP, no-one was penalised there).

How the FIA can adjudge Seb Bourdias to be at fault is astounding frankly, I defy anybody to defend THAT decision.

If Hamilton wins then he will have calmed down & had a stiff talking to by R Dennis.

If Massa wins unfortunatly, it will always be tainted by all the controversy surrounding the points he gained through FIA decisions.:(