so if my local asda does that it's 1p off derv and 4p off unleaded.:mad:

2p and 0p at my local one....

We're at 90.9p for Petrol and 105.9p for Diesel down here... wish it drop to 104.9 by tomorrow, with my 5ppL voucher i could actually buy for under a £pL :O

Derv *should* be under £1 per litre at the moment.

Derv *should* be under £1 per litre at the moment.

Agreed.

Derv *should* be under £1 per litre at the moment.

On what basis? Current facts please, not that it was under £1 last time UL was 90p.

On what basis? Current facts please, not that it was under £1 last time UL was 90p.

Because taxation hasn't changed since then and demand for diesel v unleaded hasn't altered significantly in that period either.

In fact , there has been a swing *back* towards petrol power of late.

As I've said before , when you take tax out of the issue there's a vast difference in prices. Unleaded is 27.1p and diesel is 39.9p based on current best buys.

They are charging more for it simply because they can do and there's very little motorists can do about it.

In the medium or long term you might change to a petrol car if you think that's going to work out cheaper for you , but in the short term you can't just decide to use a different fuel.

Because taxation hasn't changed since then and demand for diesel v unleaded hasn't altered significantly in that period either.

Diesel = heating oil, with it being winter...

Dundee Tesco has put UL up 1p??

Strange response to Asda dropping theirs. Tesco now dearer than the nearest Shell. Super is at 97.9 down 2p though

Diesel = heating oil, with it being winter...

Derv has been heating oil for the last how many years and the prices have not had anything like the disparity here.

Also the UK doesn't use that much heating oil and the heating oil demand in the US usually pushes up the price of crude rather than just derv on it's own.

Diesel is a by product of the process of making petrol (cracking crude), granted it has to be refined but it doesnt account for the 15p price difference. I understand that we (UK) have a lack of diesel refining capacity compared to petrol, but i assume this was still the case years ago when the prices were far more similar.

Edited 20 November, 200817 yr by snownrock
being wrong

Derv stands for Diesel Engined Road Vehicle not derivative, sorry.

Well i sit corrected

Diesel = heating oil, with it being winter...

We've had winter before , and there wasn't a 14p a litre difference then.

Unleaded was at about 90p at the start of october last year , just at the start of winter , and there was a 4p difference then.

Also "because" of "climate change" we are having milder winters which should mean less demand than in previous years.

Diesel is a by product of the process of making petrol (cracking crude), granted it has to be refined but it doesnt account for the 15p price difference. I understand that we (UK) have a lack of diesel refining capacity compared to petrol, but i assume this was still the case years ago when the prices were far more similar.

It's not a by-product , any more than plastics are a by-product.

It's simply one fraction of the crude oil that is distilled and refined , and the exact proportions you get from a barrell of oil can vary quite a bit depending on how you process it.

If there is less demand for unleaded and more for diesel then the refineries can adjust their output accordingly. This isn't an overnight thing , but then neither is the shift in demand.

Nobody is denying that more people have diesel cars now than they did 20 years ago which will have some effect on prices , but the point is that this hasn't changed much in the last year (if at all) yet fuel companies now want to charge a lot more for diesel than unleaded with no justification.

In the 80's the oil refineries spent a lot of money making changes as they expected unleaded to take over from everything. Problem was unleaded use peaked in the early 90's and since then they have not massively changed the set up of the refinaries to reflect this.

Id think you would want a 60:40 petrol to diesel split coming out of the fuels now that dervs are used for so much more.

Where's the proof that the likes of production costs or basic supply and demand constraints are not to blame?

Because this isn't it

Because taxation hasn't changed since then and demand for diesel v unleaded hasn't altered significantly in that period either.

In fact , there has been a swing *back* towards petrol power of late.

As I've said before , when you take tax out of the issue there's a vast difference in prices. Unleaded is 27.1p and diesel is 39.9p based on current best buys.

They are charging more for it simply because they can do and there's very little motorists can do about it.

In the medium or long term you might change to a petrol car if you think that's going to work out cheaper for you , but in the short term you can't just decide to use a different fuel.

We've had winter before , and there wasn't a 14p a litre difference then.

Unleaded was at about 90p at the start of october last year , just at the start of winter , and there was a 4p difference then.

Also "because" of "climate change" we are having milder winters which should mean less demand than in previous years.

I paid 92.9p at the start of this week bbefore the drops to 90.9p yesterday

I last paid 90.9p in April 07, it rose considerably from there although dipped in Aug/Sep 07 to 91.9p.

Where's the proof that the likes of production costs or basic supply and demand constraints are not to blame?

Because this isn't it

I paid 92.9p at the start of this week bbefore the drops to 90.9p yesterday

I last paid 90.9p in April 07, it rose considerably from there although dipped in Aug/Sep 07 to 91.9p.

Where's the proof that giant space rabbits aren't to blame either?

The prices I was paying for diesel over the last year are below.

Feb-07 89

Mar-07 90

Apr-07 92

May-07 94

Jun-07 95

Jul-07 93

Aug-07 94

Sep-07 95

Oct-07 97

Nov-07 105

Dec-07 107

Jan-08 108

Feb-08 108

Mar-08 110

Apr-08 112

May-08 122

Jun-08 130

Jul-08 134

Aug-08 124

Sep-08 121

Oct-08 115

Nov-08 107

Where's the proof that giant space rabbits aren't to blame either?

I'm not in the vocal minority blaming anyone though

There could be a perfectly valid reason. Just like there was a reason why houses that could be built for £60K were being sold for nearly £200K. But I can see that 10p on a litre of diesel is far more important.

My figures match Dr Z's, although it was for petrol until March this year

I'd like to see some proof that there are supply issues rather than the "derv is more expensive to make" "derv is used more" "derv is dirty and costs more" cr*p.

The problem is when people give generic reasons that are known to be untrue as reasons, you have to question if they are telling the truth to you.

FWIW, I honestly believe it is, in part at least, a case of them knowing they sell less of it for a given number of miles and trying to keep the prices high.

well the price of oil continued to drop below the $50 mark today coming down to how cheap it was May 2005 (linky FT.com / MARKETS / Commodities - Demand jitters push crude below $50 )

well the price of oil continued to drop below the $50 mark today coming down to how cheap it was May 2005 (linky FT.com / MARKETS / Commodities - Demand jitters push crude below $50 )

At that time petrol and diesel prices were much lower:

Fuel Price Reports : AA fuel price reports 2000 to 2007 - The AA

May 2005 UK averages:

- UL = 85.6ppl

- Derv = 89.7ppl

- Super = 91.4ppl

To allow for the price to reach fuel and make it winter Oct 2005:

- UL = 94.5ppl

- Derv = 97.2ppl

- Super = 100.4ppl

No disparity there at all then

Petrol about the same on average at the same time of year and maybe a bit cheaper , derv approximately 10p higher

Right , I've just looked for some figures in millions of litres.

Department for Transport - Promotion and use of Biofuels in the United Kingdom During 2007

August 2007 Diesel 2147 and Unleaded 2058 - about a 4p premium on diesel

January 2008 Diesel 1884 and Unleaded 1917 - about a 10p premium on diesel despite demand being *LOWER THAN UNLEADED*

April 2008 Diesel 2139 and Unleaded 1962 - now about a 13p premium on diesel

When demand has fallen relative to unleaded , how does supply and demand justify a price increase?

It then returned to "normal" levels with slightly more diesel than unleaded sold , but now they are charging a lot more for diesel.....

Morrisons have dropped their petrol price to 89.9p this morning, Diesel still at 105.9

Right , I've just looked for some figures in millions of litres.

Department for Transport - Promotion and use of Biofuels in the United Kingdom During 2007

August 2007 Diesel 2147 and Unleaded 2058 - about a 4p premium on diesel

January 2008 Diesel 1884 and Unleaded 1917 - about a 10p premium on diesel despite demand being *LOWER THAN UNLEADED*

April 2008 Diesel 2139 and Unleaded 1962 - now about a 13p premium on diesel

When demand has fallen relative to unleaded , how does supply and demand justify a price increase?

It then returned to "normal" levels with slightly more diesel than unleaded sold , but now they are charging a lot more for diesel.....

I looked at those numbers and saw:

Jan - Apr 07 UL 49.5% vs DSL 50.5%

Overall 2007 UL 48.5% vs DSL 51.5%

Jan - Apr 08 UL 47.5% vs DSL 52.5%

The diesel/petrol pirce gap has increased with the increased proportional demand for diesel.