I've been quoted £268 inc VAT and re-alignment.

What's bothering me is that if I fit WALK, will I get more pitching and diving on acceleration and braking? 'Cos I hate that in a car. That's what I can't get my head round in this thread. The boffs are saying it softens the suspension, but the non-boffs are saying it feels more planted in braking and acceleration. They can't both be right...can they?

I'm off for a stiff drink and a hot towel..!

Ouch; even at full Skoda dealer rates £268 is expensive; or is that including the WALK itself in which case - good value.

Would you like to meet up and check my car out?

I just had the same quote of £268

That was to supply AND fit so i think i might be going with that option

Carl:thumbup:

Ouch; even at full Skoda dealer rates £268 is expensive; or is that including the WALK itself in which case - good value.

Would you like to meet up and check my car out?

Yes, price includes the parts (JKM by the way). Thanks for the offer - if I get my head round all this, then I may take you up on it. Tell me - if the suspension really is softer post-WALK, does it improve the ride quality? Now that's a by-product I would like...

Yes, price includes the parts (JKM by the way). Thanks for the offer - if I get my head round all this, then I may take you up on it. Tell me - if the suspension really is softer post-WALK, does it improve the ride quality? Now that's a by-product I would like...

Here we go again. ;)

No; the suspension is not softer per se, it is 'dynamically' softer (if I understand all that is said) under acceleration (so the nose lifts, albeit by only a few mm more than OE and not so much as you would notice; it certainly fooled me ).

If you want an improvement in ride quality you will have to talk to JKM about getting some Koni FSDs I can offer a road test on these too.

Can defo vouch for the FSD's they do improve ride quality quite alot

Carl:thumbup:

Here we go again. ;)

No; the suspension is not softer per se, it is 'dynamically' softer (if I understand all that is said) under acceleration (so the nose lifts, albeit by only a few mm more than OE and not so much as you would notice; it certainly fooled me ).

If you want an improvement in ride quality you will have to talk to JKM about getting some Koni FSDs I can offer a road test on these too.

Look at my sig...

Look at my sig...

Doh! :eek:

Hmmm; you'll have to revert to OE springs then.

I have never driven a VAG car fitted with WALK, but I've fitted them (and of course driven) on Impreza's and a couple of Legacies. The WALK will increase pitching a little because as Bahnstormer says the front suspension will be 'dynamically' a bit softer, but the effect is barely noticable and I suspect most drivers would be unaware of the change.

The real impact of WALK is not in terms of straight line traction, but as I said earlier, the increased softness helps keep the inner wheel on the pavement during a turn, so the main improvement is for those that drive on twisty roads. The difference is fairly subtle though (at least in my experience on Subaru's) so don't expect a magical transformation, its just a small incremental improvement, which is well worthwhile non-the-less.

Was wondering if i could get a similar effect though by setting the Front ARB on softest setting and the Rear ARB to the Hardest. The reason i got both (and i said the same in the review i put in the maintenance and performance section) is that every Octy i have been in that just had the Rear tended to understeer more than OEM when pushed whereas with both it doesn't and improves handling an awful lot

Carl:thumbup:

This doesn't sound right. A car with stiffer rear bar and OE front will tend to OVERsteer more than with OE at both ends. Basically adding roll stiffness tends to reduce grip at whichever end of the car you put it. So stiffen rear = bias toward oversteer. Stiffen front = bias toward understeer. It is the ratio of front/rear roll stiffness that determines the overall handling balance, rather than absolute roll stiffness per se.

You want a car which is fairly neutral during 'normal' fast driving but with understeer once the limit of grip is reached. This will give an entertaining but safe drive. What you don't want is a car which oversteers in extremis. That's a good way of ending sideways on into on-coming traffic (been there and got the T-shirt on that one).

Think carefully before taking all the understeer out of your chassis. If you end up in an accident and the car is inspected there could be all sorts of repurcussions if the modifications were deemed to make the car unsafe - especially if your insurance company hasn't been told!

I have never driven a VAG car fitted with WALK, but I've fitted them (and of course driven) on Impreza's and a couple of Legacies. The WALK will increase pitching a little because as Bahnstormer says the front suspension will be 'dynamically' a bit softer, but the effect is barely noticable and I suspect most drivers would be unaware of the change.

The real impact of WALK is not in terms of straight line traction, but as I said earlier, the increased softness helps keep the inner wheel on the pavement during a turn, so the main improvement is for those that drive on twisty roads. The difference is fairly subtle though (at least in my experience on Subaru's) so don't expect a magical transformation, its just a small incremental improvement, which is well worthwhile non-the-less.

Thanks EGC, I actually understand that - a fairly small improvement for a fairly big financial payout! I will be thinking long and hard before I go for this particular mod...

This doesn't sound right. A car with stiffer rear bar and OE front will tend to OVERsteer more than with OE at both ends. Basically adding roll stiffness tends to reduce grip at whichever end of the car you put it. So stiffen rear = bias toward oversteer. Stiffen front = bias toward understeer. It is the ratio of front/rear roll stiffness that determines the overall handling balance, rather than absolute roll stiffness per se.

You want a car which is fairly neutral during 'normal' fast driving but with understeer once the limit of grip is reached. This will give an entertaining but safe drive. What you don't want is a car which oversteers in extremis. That's a good way of ending sideways on into on-coming traffic (been there and got the T-shirt on that one).

Think carefully before taking all the understeer out of your chassis. If you end up in an accident and the car is inspected there could be all sorts of repurcussions if the modifications were deemed to make the car unsafe - especially if your insurance company hasn't been told!

I'm not doubting for one minute what you are saying EGC as you appear to know infinitely more about suspension than i could ever dream of. However every car i have been in that has just a Rear ARB fitted has Understeered a hell of a lot more than when not fitted. As i have said i have both bars fitted (currently on softest setting for both but still way stiffer than OEM) and they have improved the handling of my car no end. I did a bit of a test the other day and a mate who had just a rear ARB in the same type car same suspension couldn't corner as fast as i could without understeering

Maybe something else is coming into play? As i said i am no expert

What would your advice be then? Stiffen the front bar and leave the rear?? or just leave both on soft.

Would a WALK not be worthwhile now with having both bars?

Any Advice is gratefully received.

Cheers

Carl:thumbup:

I have never driven a VAG car fitted with WALK, but I've fitted them (and of course driven) on Impreza's and a couple of Legacies. The WALK will increase pitching a little because as Bahnstormer says the front suspension will be 'dynamically' a bit softer, but the effect is barely noticable and I suspect most drivers would be unaware of the change.

The real impact of WALK is not in terms of straight line traction, but as I said earlier, the increased softness helps keep the inner wheel on the pavement during a turn, so the main improvement is for those that drive on twisty roads. The difference is fairly subtle though (at least in my experience on Subaru's) so don't expect a magical transformation, its just a small incremental improvement, which is well worthwhile non-the-less.

Hi EGC, all,

thanks for sharing. I'm still back to physics of suspensions as I often tend to sympathize with St. Thomas and the measures done on a STI may (will) surely differ for a different car (they wll actually differ even between hatch and estate as COM and COG will vary). I'd like to comment on your statement about value on straight roads. I found the kit improved tyre to road contact a lot on straight roads, too (and so efficiency). Especially when wet and both while braking and while accelerating.

Anyway, to each his own

Peace,

I'm not doubting for one minute what you are saying EGC as you appear to know infinitely more about suspension than i could ever dream of. However every car i have been in that has just a Rear ARB fitted has Understeered a hell of a lot more than when not fitted. As i have said i have both bars fitted (currently on softest setting for both but still way stiffer than OEM) and they have improved the handling of my car no end. I did a bit of a test the other day and a mate who had just a rear ARB in the same type car same suspension couldn't corner as fast as i could without understeering

Maybe something else is coming into play? As i said i am no expert

What would your advice be then? Stiffen the front bar and leave the rear?? or just leave both on soft.

Would a WALK not be worthwhile now with having both bars?

Any Advice is gratefully received.

Cheers

Carl:thumbup:

Found a nice link: Tires, Friction, and Grip | Build A Faster Car

I'm not doubting for one minute what you are saying EGC as you appear to know infinitely more about suspension than i could ever dream of. However every car i have been in that has just a Rear ARB fitted has Understeered a hell of a lot more than when not fitted.

Carl:thumbup:

Difficult to comment on that observation :confused: The Laws of Physics (and hence chassis dynamics) would dictate that increasing the rear roll stiffness would reduce the amount of understeer, and I think this is most people's observation too.

However these things can be very subjective and the 'power of suggestion' is very strong. As I said further up, I used to work in the motor trade. I lost count of the number of customers, who on diriving their car after a simple oil and filter change would declare that it had a lot more power and ran smoother!

Another favourite (to avoid an argument over a bill) its to tell the customer that the job had been done 'just in time'. e.g. £400 timing belt change and customer is looking quizzically at the bill - I interject with, "good job you had that done sir, the old belt was just about to fail'. Instantly defuses the situation!

I have never driven a VAG car fitted with WALK, but I've fitted them (and of course driven) on Impreza's and a couple of Legacies. The WALK will increase pitching a little because as Bahnstormer says the front suspension will be 'dynamically' a bit softer, but the effect is barely noticable and I suspect most drivers would be unaware of the change.

The real impact of WALK is not in terms of straight line traction, but as I said earlier, the increased softness helps keep the inner wheel on the pavement during a turn, so the main improvement is for those that drive on twisty roads. The difference is fairly subtle though (at least in my experience on Subaru's) so don't expect a magical transformation, its just a small incremental improvement, which is well worthwhile non-the-less.

Perhaps the increase in front grip with a WALK is more noticeable in an Octavia or Golf as their front tyres are more grip-challenged being only FWD, as opposed to a Scooby that is 4WD.

In OE spec, full throttle acceleration in the lower gears of an Octy vRS (TFSI or TDI) is only just possible in the dry, and downright impossible in the wet, without getting wheelspin. Whereas in a Scooby the front tyres will only be providing 40% - 60% of the tractive effort, the rears doing the rest; so there is less inclination to get wheelspin.

Food for though?

Perhaps the increase in front grip with a WALK is more noticeable in an Octavia or Golf as their front tyres are more grip-challenged being only FWD, as opposed to a Scooby that is 4WD.

In OE spec, full throttle acceleration in the lower gears of an Octy vRS (TFSI or TDI) is only just possible in the dry, and downright impossible in the wet, without getting wheelspin. Whereas in a Scooby the front tyres will only be providing 40% - 60% of the tractive effort, the rears doing the rest; so there is less inclination to get wheelspin.

Food for though?

Yes, I think this is true enough..

i agree with what most have said in this and confused with a few others which seem a little contradictive.

I had a extensive discussion with the company who are going to be setting my coilovers with cornerweighting, and a discussion on the best way to set a car up for street and track use(they specialise in track setups more than road though)

according to them

-If you want to reduce understeer and push towards oversteer you should increase the rear arb size/stiffness only

-If you want to increase understeer you should increase the size/stiffness of the front ARB only

-If you want over all reduced body roll, less understeer, and a car that will handle much safer and easier on the limit then the best option is to increase front and rear.

he highly reccommended this option over the others. He wasnt famliar with the WALK, so he didnt mention much about it.

What EGC says about WALK seems to make sense once you ignore the "anti lift" name.

I have however ordered the WALK, be here soon so looking forward to that.

I do also have my eyes on the morego powergrip front wishbone. here sibthe review on it morego. - Performance Car Tuning Specialists - Road Test - Morego MK5 VW Golf GTi 250 and this is the ite in the shop morego. - Performance Car Tuning Specialists - Power Grip Suspension Kit

with that powergrip, ARBs, Walk and coilovers, ultrac sessantas, and (potentially the bumpsteer kit, from whitline) i reckon i would have an absolutely awesone car to drive.

I do also have my eyes on the morego powergrip front wishbone. here sibthe review on it morego. - Performance Car Tuning Specialists - Road Test - Morego MK5 VW Golf GTi 250 and this is the ite in the shop morego. - Performance Car Tuning Specialists - Power Grip Suspension Kit

with that powergrip, ARBs, Walk and coilovers, ultrac sessantas, and (potentially the bumpsteer kit, from whitline) i reckon i would have an absolutely awesone car to drive.

Doesn't, IIRC, the Morego Powergrip wishbone do it's job by increasing the front camber, which will then have a detrimental effect on tyre wear if used for normal day to day driving?

Talking of camber; I had a 4 wheel alignment done yesterday following fitting of my WALK, tweaked up the toe settings a bit (had noticed tyre squeal on right handers that wasn't there before WALK fitting) BUT more crucially gave me the chance to check rear camber (I'd noticed a slight inner edge wear issue on the rear tyres).

Found it was quite a way out at +1deg 75' as opposed to +1deg 20'. Got that changed pretty smartish and am actually intrigued that I hadn't had a more severe tyre wear issue earlier.

Edited 1 May, 200917 yr by bahnstormer vrs

Just a note: yesterday I had my front changed with Eagle F1s and was congratulated for how smooth and correct tyres were worn, and this even after a couple of weeks of WALK

I guess garage which installed the WALK did a proper job

Simon, I hope bet you will enjoy the WALK as myself (of course you'll get more effect on a FWD car with respect to a 4WD one), even if I don't know the morego and how all these mods will behave together. BTW, Julian told me that the bumpsteer is somewhat difficult to obtain.

ifyou do alot of motorway miles you willgeta detrimental effect on tyre wear but if your in the twisty stuff alot, it shouldnt affect it. must admit im not that bothered about tyre wear as long as it doesnt get ridiculous.

Thought I’d resurrect this thread having had a while to assess the effects of the WALK (Whiteline Anti-Lift Kit). If you’d said to me before the WALK was fitted that there was a lot of ‘slop’ and looseness in my steering, I’d have said you were talking rubbish. But that's just what it felt like on the first drive. The steering felt much ‘tighter’ and ‘tied down’ if I can call it that. Almost as if a quicker rack had been fitted.

The WALK’s main impact has been to massively reduce plough-on understeer. A vast improvement. Mid-corner steering adjustments are less often needed and on the motorway, the car seems to sit more planted in the chosen direction without the need to make small tweaks to the steering.

If the softening of the suspension has had any effect on lift and dive, I can’t detect it (bear in mind I’ve got Eibachs though). However this ‘softening’ effect deffo improves the ride quality. Road defects (e.g. M-way bridge joints on a curve taken at speed) that would previously unsettle the car, are now heard but not felt.

Axle tramp on full bore acceleration has disappeared. The ESP light now flickers, but none of the awful hammering previously encountered.

Downsides? It isn’t cheap (£240 including fitting and VAT). There’s more tyre noise communicated into the cabin and it has slightly increased the ride height at the front (between 5-10mm) which is a surprise as the dampers were undisturbed during fitting. Maybe this will settle back in time.

Worth the money? If you do a lot of fast driving on cross-country roads or track, then it’s a no brainer. For less press-on road use, this particular jury’s still out…

good news there then. mine is ready and waiting to be fitted. really looking forward to it now, do you have front and rear eibach arbs or did you mean eiback springs if so what settings have you got them on.

I find it strage that the suspension has been raised 10mm. that seems very strange as the walk fits onto the lower wishbone and is not in anyway connected to the suspension . maybe it will settle. ill be adjusting the coilovers if that is the case

good news there then. mine is ready and waiting to be fitted. really looking forward to it now, do you have front and rear eibach arbs or did you mean eiback springs if so what settings have you got them on.

I find it strage that the suspension has been raised 10mm. that seems very strange as the walk fits onto the lower wishbone and is not in anyway connected to the suspension . maybe it will settle. ill be adjusting the coilovers if that is the case

Yes, Eibach springs not ARBs. The WALK is deffo connected to the suspension - it alters the position of the lower wishbone, onto which is mounted the hub carrier which in turn forms the base of the strut...

Welcome aboard!

Honestly I thought WALK would reduce a bit frontal height, by adding that small but - yup - effective caster angle!

Anyway, on highway it is a real pleasure.

if they raise the front end by 5-10mm, what do you think the conseqence of lowering my coilovers 5-10mm on the car after fitting would it have a detrimentl effect or would it still allow the walk to work.

EGC might be the man for that question, he seems pretty knowledgable when it comes to the suspension