The death of democracy? Boring but topical

[Kaiserb_uk]

IIRC genocide is ruled out by international law. Thanks to those Briskodians' ancestors that fought against the nazis in WW2 (may they never be forgotten). So you might encounter a few difficulties.

And am I the only one to spot the irony?

[swedishskoda]

And am I the only one to spot the irony?

Most probably you're right, I apologise and blame it on being overworked with a persistent headache. Not the best condition for spotting ironies.

But one never knows these days - and the project has, after all, been tried more than once in the past :(

[ultra_joel88]

International law does not exist... for law to be effective it requires some form of coercive authority behind it... the UN does not have this capacity... international law is dependent on voluntary interpretation and adoption.

[redbaron]

Well now the block of international law has been removed I shall found my genocidal party forthwith.

[Kaiserb_uk]

Well now the block of international law has been removed I shall found my genocidal party forthwith.

I'd vote for you*

*wouldn't actually join though, someone might publish a list.

[KLM]

Change the word white, however and it's all permitted.

Quite agree.

There is definately a culture of discrimination in the country. If you are a white, heterosexual male with no disabilities, have a job, pay all your taxes, don't claim benefits (and own a car!) then you are guaranteed to be discriminated against and exploited at every turn. As soon as you speak out about it though then you are non PC or have radical views!

[Kaiserb_uk]

Quite agree.

There is definately a culture of discrimination in the country. If you are a white, heterosexual male with no disabilities, have a job, pay all your taxes, don't claim benefits (and own a car!) then you are guaranteed to be discriminated against and exploited at every turn. As soon as you speak out about it though then you are non PC or have radical views!

No, as soon as you speak out you sound a twerp. "I'm a white middle class male, what about my rights?"

"Er, you have ALL the rights sir."

"Ah."

[jonnycatbiscuit]

The BNP is a legitimate political party, I can't see how it can be legal to ban police officers (for example) from being a member.

If the other parties had the balls and done something about immigration and looked after England's interests a few years ago perhaps the BNP wouldn't be such an attractive proposition to so many people now. Rather than asking people to not vote for the BNP perhaps the mainstream parties would be better off asking what the BNP are doing to make people support them.

The police are not allowed to be affiliated to ANY political party.

(We're also not allowed to get drunk on or off duty, or join facebook, or generally do anything that might "bring the force into disrepute")

Well woop de f*cking doo! I wish they'd told me that 15 years ago...

[KLM]

"Er, you have ALL the rights sir."

How do you work that out? You are actively discriminated against at every turn. Were it the other way around it would not be acceptable.

Oh I'm terribly sorry for working hard to get a good job. I'm sorry that I have no religious views which I can moan about being discriminated against. I'm sorry I'm white. I'm sorry for enjoying the naked women mud wrestling aftershow party and ... well everything else really.

It seems that everyone else should be proud of what they are unless the are the 'white middle class male' as you put it, in which case they should be ashamed.

Everyone is always talking about the rights of a certain group. What happened to the rights of each person as an individual? By creating groups you simply impart divisions on society.

[apd007]

The police are not allowed to be affiliated to ANY political party.

Ahh, that is different, wasn't aware of that.

Funnily enough, when I looked at joining the police a few years ago, that was never mentioned.

[KLM]

The police are not allowed to be affiliated to ANY political party.

(We're also not allowed to get drunk on or off duty, or join facebook, or generally do anything that might "bring the force into disrepute")

Well woop de f*cking doo! I wish they'd told me that 15 years ago...

ah but you do get to keep 10% of any drugs found on a raid? don't you?

"bring the force into disrepute" - best leave here pronto then Don't worry - we never saw anything!

[ultra_joel88]

"Er' date=' you have ALL the rights sir."

How do you work that out? You are actively discriminated against at every turn. Were it the other way around it would not be acceptable.

Oh I'm terribly sorry for working hard to get a good job. I'm sorry that I have no religious views which I can moan about being discriminated against. I'm sorry I'm white. I'm sorry for enjoying the naked women mud wrestling aftershow party and ... well everything else really.

It seems that everyone else should be proud of what they are unless the are the 'white middle class male' as you put it, in which case they should be ashamed.

Everyone is always talking about the rights of a certain group. What happened to the rights of each person as an individual? By creating groups you simply impart divisions on society.

What rights do you feel you are denied?

The right to vote?

The right to privacy?

The right to freedom of movement?

The right to refrain from religious practice?

The right to work?

The right to partake in any social/ sporting/ cultural event you enjoy?

I am a white middle class male and don't feel discrimnated against.

I don't really feel proud of being white - primarily because I don't see life in racial terms, secondly because I born this way so havn't really achieved anything solely through being white.

[cheezemonkhai]

I've said it before, but positive discrimination in various areas of society is nearly always against white males.

You know apartheid started off and was considered positive discrimination in favour of the white minority and look where that got everyone.

[TeflonTom]

I am one of the 10,000 mentioned. I have had the dodgy emails already.

just email them back and threaten to burn down thier house:)

[Loz]

The police are not allowed to be affiliated to ANY political party.

Correct me if I'm wrong (but I'm not) but the form asks specifically if you have ever voted for the BNP. It doesn't mention ANY other party by name.

[Lady Elanore]

Whilst I am most definitely not a fan of the BNP and indeed I hate the Party, as long as it is a legal party in this country, we must defend people’s rights to be affiliated with it. Personally I would like to see it removed from our political landscape, but it is an alternative point of view and if a person wants to be a member, then they should be given the freedom of choice to join it.

I wouldn’t like details of how I voted at the local council elections for instance, mainly because I believe I have the right to privacy and this enables me to divulge my affiliation if I choose to do so, not by some third party. So in answer to the thread title, no I don’t think it is the end, but it is a bit of a bump in the road for sure.

[swedishskoda]

Correct me if I'm wrong (but I'm not) but the form asks specifically if you have ever voted for the BNP. It doesn't mention ANY other party by name.

:eek: Can anyone confirm that? I do hope Loz is wrong on this one? Asking for membership is one thing, asking if you've voted for this or that surely must be illegal - even in the UK? I know you don't have a formal constitution but the ballot secret must be guarded somehow - and unconditionally?

[lozgti]

Hope they don't publish the Monster Raving Looney list.

As to the question,of course it is wrong to publish it.When you actually go in to vote,remember how strict they are about everything.....go in your little booth,fold the paper,sneak it in the box.Its all very private.

As someone else has said (I know this isn't meant to be political but it needs to be said),the way Labour has behaved in terms of deciding how we should run our lives to the point of severe intrusion into our private lives....I find that (and what might come) far scarier.In fact I worry about who agrees with them

[heresmo]

Hope they don't publish the Monster Raving Looney list.

Or membership of the Daft Bats Party :nervous:

Now, forgive my ignorance, but as the BNP is a legal party, wouldn't their records be available for public scrutiny anyway?

In answer to the OP, I think it is wrong to have published a list with the clear intention of implying shame for being a member. Had paying membership lists for all parties been published, I wonder if it would have raised more than tittering gossip for a while, my point being that so much of our so-called private data is available to so many government departments and NHS etc that I wonder if much more than an eyebrow would have been raised.

Now, politically, I reckon that few people agree with every intention in any party's manifesto - they vote for two or three headline points. No different for the BNP - it's either all or nothing. I wonder if there'll soon be a less extremist breakaway party like the Soc Dems were, which admittedly didn't survive, but it did survive for long enough to get a lot of their policies into mainstream party manifestos.

Re Roo's comment at Msg #23:

I may not agree with what they have to say, but I agree that they should be allowed to say it if they so wish. Only if things start to get out of hand should they be stopped.[unquote]

This suggests that the BNP will be tolerated unless it looks like they're upsetting the status quo. I find this slightly naive, since, without a lot of public support for their less extreme policies, they wouldn't be surviving in the first place. Re democracy (death of), in theory we don't jail dissidents. With increasingly vague anti-terrorism laws, your words Roo about stopping them might not be quite so naive. :(

Mo

[redbaron]

Mo,

I think you are right... there is a gap for a party that tackles some tough subjects w/o the "racist" baggage of the BNP.

A party that tackles "perceived rampant immigration to the uk"

A party that allows uk/ British people of all skin colour / faith to be allowed to be proud

A party that acknowledges that historically uk / britain is a generally christian nation and wants to remain that way, be educated that way and so on

A party that clamps down on PC nonsense that makes "traditional brits" feel marginalised in their own country.....

is it really that difficult? are any of these really racism?

[swedishskoda]

Mo,

I think you are right... there is a gap for a party that tackles some tough subjects w/o the "racist" baggage of the BNP.

A party that tackles "perceived rampant immigration to the uk"

A party that allows uk/ British people of all skin colour / faith to be allowed to be proud

A party that acknowledges that historically uk / britain is a generally christian nation and wants to remain that way, be educated that way and so on

A party that clamps down on PC nonsense that makes "traditional brits" feel marginalised in their own country.....

is it really that difficult? are any of these really racism?

Hmmm... IMHO the religious believes of a nation is not the kind of issue that should be addressed by a political party. I don't advocate that religious arguments should be kept outside the political debate, but I do think that religion should be put aside before entering the House of Commons. Also,I can see a possible conflict between #2 and #5: If a dark-skinned Muslim UK citizen is allowed to be proud of being just that, won't a lot of people argue that this marginalises "traditional brits"?

[KLM]

What rights do you feel you are denied?

It is not about rights being denied. It is about others given preference.

For example: where I used to work there was a sentence in the job application which said something like : "We are an equal opportunities employer. If you are from an ethnic minority or have a disability we guarantee you an interview." Well ...er ..... that is not equal.

They interviewed a guy with a disability for a job which he was clearly unsuitable for. They employed him. When I questioned why I was told because if they didn't they it could be difficult or seen as discriminaton.

He was a really nice bloke and we went out for a few beers. But he couldn't do the job. (and before anyone jumps on me to say I am anti people with disabilities, my father has been in a wheel chair for over 30 years after an RTA)

Each person should be judged on their own merits. There should not be quotas for the types of people to be employed. The ethnic background etc of someone should be irrelevant. It should be about their suitability for the job.

I too would not say I am proud to be white. I am just proud to be the best person can be. I have my opinions on things that others may not agree with. For example I am very anti religion. No one religion specifically, just religion universally. However I would never wish to deny anyone else the right to their beliefs.

To comment on the original topic. I do not support the BNP or their 'policies'. But they are a legitimate party and as such have the same rights of any other political group. I do not think that these details should have been released.

Edited 24 November, 2008 by KLM
White middle class men can't spell!!

[heresmo]

... are any of these really racism?

Interestingly, a radio presenter asked what "Nationalism" actually meant, since anyone who lives here (be they indigent, immigrant or descendants from several generations ago, or newly immigrant) should all be routing for this country (read UK) anyway. Posted without comment as not sure what comment I'd make TBH.

Re swedishskoda's quote:

Hmmm... IMHO the religious believes of a nation is not the kind of issue that should be addressed by a political party. [unquote]

That assumes that religious beliefs are held but do not impinge on the way of life of others. There are some who think that "our" traditional way of life is now being gradually and progressively changed by rules and laws passed by government specifically to accommodate other beliefs - in other words there can't really be any sort of separation of church (whichever church) and state as that doesn't exist any more. I don't support the BNP being an inbuilt socialist I suppose, but at the same time I've no doubt that like many many people there comes a point where you have to ask a question as to whether it's gone (and might/will go further) a bit beyond live and let live.

Regards

Mo

[cheezemonkhai]

Hmmm... IMHO the religious believes of a nation is not the kind of issue that should be addressed by a political party. I don't advocate that religious arguments should be kept outside the political debate, but I do think that religion should be put aside before entering the House of Commons. Also,I can see a possible conflict between #2 and #5: If a dark-skinned Muslim UK citizen is allowed to be proud of being just that, won't a lot of people argue that this marginalises "traditional brits"?

I think we're probably the only country in the world that doesn't seem to enforce it's own leanings. India being the closest I'd guess.

[Mouse]

Thanks all for your input. Nice to know this forum has a lot of intelligent and sensible

members. Just for the record I am proud of being on the list. I do not agree

with most of there policies, but a lot of them. Colour does not come into it for me

although I feel I should mention it, being Colour blind is being blind to all the beautiful

things in life. People are predjucised wether you are a different colour, wear a different uniform ETC.

People always notice differences but not similarities.

My point was if a list of names and addresses and tele no`s was published of for Example>

4*4 owners

Civil Parking attendants.

Brisky forum members>

Whatever the media is making tomorrows Fish and Chip Paper.

Although the original post was about politics, is that right?

Edited 22 November, 2008 by Mouse