The problem is the more you push your limits the more reserve you have. Someone with great skill driving at 6/10ths will be quicker than learner driver at 9/10ths. That's the point.

I definitely like the idea of having something in reserve when driving to keep your options open if it all goes Pete Tong Is it possible you can expand on "great skill" - I'm trying to understand what skills sets a great driver apart from a learner driver

Chris

You aint going to learn from reading about it, so go and have some instruction and try to get better. Even the top drivers have someone giving them advice as you carnt see what you are doing when driving. I doubt even a great driver could tell you the answer to your question. I except I am rubbish, so I am always trying to do better.

I definitely like the idea of having something in reserve when driving to keep your options open if it all goes Pete Tong Is it possible you can expand on "great skill" - I'm trying to understand what skills sets a great driver apart from a learner driver

Chris

I agree too, except that I think you should have something in reserve against the lesser of the driver's and the car's competence. That pretty much excludes setting up most FWD cars "in oversteer" (and I'll bet RSimps means a rear wheel skid rather than just having the car turning faster than the commanded steering angle would suggest it will).

You aint going to learn from reading about it, so go and have some instruction and try to get better. Even the top drivers have someone giving them advice as you carnt see what you are doing when driving. I doubt even a great driver could tell you the answer to your question. I except I am rubbish, so I am always trying to do better.

I have done a bit of training and am still also a rubbish driver

Ok, maybe my question wasn't very clear so let me reword it. What skills are you looking to develop to build up "something in reserve" for fast road driving above what the IAM, etc teach about observation, planning, etc?

Chris

Pitty you are miles away, as we are doing some relaxed testing on Sat on tarmac and a bit of loose in a fwd car. Its probably a bit far from Andover to Gainsbough. I think we will have nearly every combination of engine & drive train there. Front engine rwd, fwd, front engine 4wd and mid engine 4wd, just no rear engine cars.

Pitty you are miles away, as we are doing some relaxed testing on Sat on tarmac and a bit of loose in a fwd car. Its probably a bit far from Andover to Gainsbough.

Thanks fo the offer Distance isn't too much of an issue but unfortunately I'm already committed elsewhere this Saturday. :( If there's more of these days in the future, I'd love to come along to one and see what it's all about

Chris

Me too!

Pitty you are miles away, as we are doing some relaxed testing on Sat on tarmac and a bit of loose in a fwd car. Its probably a bit far from Andover to Gainsbough. I think we will have nearly every combination of engine & drive train there. Front engine rwd, fwd, front engine 4wd and mid engine 4wd, just no rear engine cars.

Too bad I'm abroad!

BTW I feel you're right on the value of that group lessons. I attended one of them at Misano but driving sessions were absurdly short and instructors were not even so enthusiast (I hope not for my own drive, one of them got fear when I put my left front wheel on the grass ).

BTW I feel you're right on the value of that group lessons. I attended one of them at Misano but driving sessions were absurdly short and instructors were not even so enthusiast (I hope not for my own drive, one of them got fear when I put my left front wheel on the grass ).

Imho, I think enthusiasm and fun go hand in hand with effective learning and if the instructors aren't doing a good job of inspiring you, then I'd be looking elsewhere

Chris

...until I hit the diesel spill, pothole, dead animal

soon to be dead child crossing the road...

Fine on a track/course obviously, but dangerous on a road

I feel that I was much faster around the same stretch of Road in either my 175bhp chipped Mazda6 diesel or even in my standard (lowered) 130bhp TDCI Mondeo than I am in the VRS.

These are both a class larger than the Mk1 Octavia but utilised innovative technology (not from a part bin!) and were renowned handlers in their class so a lot of it is to do with suspension setup and chassis characteristics I think. I believe the MkV Golf chassis is in a different league but have never driven any car based on it yet!

Also confidence, competitiveness, composure and natural ability in the heat of battle varies from Joe Soap to Joe Soap!

I believe the MkV Golf chassis is in a different league but have never driven any car based on it yet!

Imho, the Mk3 Mondeo TDCI chassis was far better than the Mk5 GT TDI Golf Had the pleasure of driving the latter for a week and couldn't wait to get back in the Mondeo!!

Chris

I have done a bit of training and am still also a rubbish driver

Ok, maybe my question wasn't very clear so let me reword it. What skills are you looking to develop to build up "something in reserve" for fast road driving above what the IAM, etc teach about observation, planning, etc?

Chris

As a police advanced driver and motorcyclist for over 20 years, and having driven many thousands of miles at 3 figure speeds on public roads, I'd like to think I am a safe driver.

Chris, - you have obviously undergone some advanced training and (having read some of your other posts) are well versed in 'roadcraft'. I can say therefore with certainty, that you are not a 'rubbish driver', but more likely in the top 10% for road driving.

The Roadcraft book is a great starter for all drivers and will make you a safer driver on the roads. What I found is that I was able to drive quicker on unfamiliar roads, but I drove slower on roads I knew well!

Driving hard round bends you can't see round is all well and good until - as Ken points out - you encounter the unexpected, and then find that you haven't got the room or time to sort it out.

Welcome, fab beer. Nice to have a proper advanced driver among us!

Chris, - you have obviously undergone some advanced training and (having read some of your other posts) are well versed in 'roadcraft'. I can say therefore with certainty, that you are not a 'rubbish driver', but more likely in the top 10% for road driving.

Thanks for the comments. I guess what I was really trying to say (quite badly!) was that despite taking a couple of courses, there's always room for improvement and compared to some of the drivers that I long to be able to drive like, I'm fairly mediocre.

Btw, have to agree with Nick that it's great to have contributions from people like yourself who have significant amounts of training and real-world experience. Just wish you were a bit more local to me so I could blag some of your time

Chris