Hi all,

some evenings ago I was driving along my very cornering high-way back home and, after passing a small new 500, got almost tailgated by it :eek: in a relatively slow and full of corners portion (sorry for my poor english).

My tires have about 3mm so, I was not too confident to keep on "rubbing" them while cornering, anyway I feel I do have some speed improvement margin.

Aside from a proper driving course, have you any hint to share (I'm not so new to "brisk" driving, as I daily run about 200miles on highways). Perhaps I'm too used to the comfortable riding offered by the vrs tdi, it seems to run on rails while when I was driving my tractor-like megane dci, I used to "screek" on almost any corner

TIA

P.S.: I've just read ScoobyChris Cornering Part 2. Sorry for having bored with a dummy question. Would it be sensible to make ScoobyChris' thread sticky?

Edited 10 December, 200817 yr by Genoa1893

I was just going to post a link to it and ask if it answered your question

http://briskoda.net/racing-advanced-driving-techniques/limit-points-cornering/81079/

http://briskoda.net/racing-advanced-driving-techniques/cornering-part-2-a/86890/

Just to add also that, depending on model, the new 500 is pretty stiffly sprung as well as very light so has go-kart handling around most corners

Chris

Position-Speed-Gear-accelerate.... Take a line that is straightish through to keep the vehicle stabile. approach at the correct speed for obstacle and then change down to a gear that you can pull away from as you get through the obstacle (roundabout) straighten up and accelerate. Have a look on youtube im sure there is many videos on there demonstrating it

I was just going to post a link to it and ask if it answered your question

http://briskoda.net/racing-advanced-driving-techniques/limit-points-cornering/81079/

http://briskoda.net/racing-advanced-driving-techniques/cornering-part-2-a/86890/

Just to add also that, depending on model, the new 500 is pretty stiffly sprung as well as very light so has go-kart handling around most corners

Chris

Hi Chris,

thank you. I guess I still have to have a serious approach to evaluate the maximum speed I can obtain on the several corners.

Position-Speed-Gear-accelerate.... Take a line that is straightish through to keep the vehicle stabile. approach at the correct speed for obstacle and then change down to a gear that you can pull away from as you get through the obstacle (roundabout) straighten up and accelerate. Have a look on youtube im sure there is many videos on there demonstrating it

Thanks again,

fact is in - at least a bunch of corners - I guess I have too conservatively shifted down when I might have avoided it...

Corners as before tunnel on

.

Edited 10 December, 200817 yr by Genoa1893

Those look some nice roads!

If you look at the clip, you'll notice how vision is artifically restricted by driving towards the apex and hugging the curves because the cliff/barriers restrict your view into the corner. Assuming that the maximum speed you can drive at is limited by how far you can see (ignoring grip, weather, etc for the time being) then positioning on the road so that you can see further ahead, means you may have the option to safely carry more speed.

So on a left hand bend, maximum view is achieved by positioning out to the right and on a right hand bend positioning out to the left. Of course, how far you can position is dictated by other traffic and how much you can safely see so you should only position to develop an existing view, rather than to create one from nothing which could leave you very vulnerable to oncoming traffic!

Also aim to use more throttle and less steering which I think was covered in Cornering Part 2

Chris

I hope he was using his mirrors during all that lane-switching

Ah, the "how do you lose a small car driven with attitude in a faster but larger car" question!

As Chris says, the key points are positioning to maximise your vision, so you can carry better speed through the current corner, and "extending your vision" so you know as much as possible about what is or isn't coming 4 or 5 corners away and ahead.

If you don't feel the car is "balanced" through the corner, you might want to try changing down a gear but not slowing more than usual, so the engine is turning faster and pulling more strongly.

Also, there's nothing wrong with tyres at 3mm on a dry or damp road; it's only when you start hitting standing water that things get a little less certain.

Ciao,

I must say that I couldn't yet find a better video of the piece of road I was talking to, but I hardly could recognize it from how sloooow it's driven in the video

I tend to change lane much more (oh yes, I look at my mirrors ), although I'm typically faster than other cars. Besides, too sad they placed a system to evaluate average speed in the road after the tunnel: a friend of mine sitting in the rear of the Megane used to call it "toboga" :D (

)

I think I still have to find the limits of my car (even if I've been driving it for more than 6 months, bynow)... while the driver of the small 500 was squeezing any bit from it and could almost follow me. Yes I had to brake for other cars in my lane, but its speed was too similar to mine, at least for my tastes... Chris, if I'm not wrong your Panda share the same platform, doesn't it?

Those look some nice roads!

If you look at the clip, you'll notice how vision is artifically restricted by driving towards the apex and hugging the curves because the cliff/barriers restrict your view into the corner. Assuming that the maximum speed you can drive at is limited by how far you can see (ignoring grip, weather, etc for the time being) then positioning on the road so that you can see further ahead, means you may have the option to safely carry more speed.

So on a left hand bend, maximum view is achieved by positioning out to the right and on a right hand bend positioning out to the left. Of course, how far you can position is dictated by other traffic and how much you can safely see so you should only position to develop an existing view, rather than to create one from nothing which could leave you very vulnerable to oncoming traffic!

Also aim to use more throttle and less steering which I think was covered in Cornering Part 2

Chris

Edited 10 December, 200817 yr by ncarring
fix quote markers

Chris, if I'm not wrong your Panda share the same platform, doesn't it?

Yep it's the same platform, although I believe the Panda has a "sportier" set up and is a shade lighter too. It'll easily keep pace with (or even overtake) a lot of bigger cars

In fact, Nick managed to bag a Caterham in it on a run through South Wales

Chris

Great! I'm aware of such satisfactions, as my first car was a growly AX GT 1360cc (carburettors, of course), it weighted less than 800Kg... just about half of the octy.

Just to share a link to driving techniques I just found:

TurnFast! • Driving Techniques

@Chris: this morning on very wet road I decided to pay attention to anticipate turning points and avoid any brake after turn in point. I've got a feeling to be smooth and quick with way less effort. Still practicing... as I sure have room for improving

Sounds good!

Another resource you might find interesting is Don Palmer's Driving Handbook written by one of the world's driving gurus.

Chris

is it available in paperback chris? i just hate reading things off a screen, rather it be a book if you know what i mean.

Not that I know of, Paul, so you might have to print off a section at a time

Chris

i also think having a car infront means that you can brake/accelerate/turn when they do so can follow their lines etc.. where as when your driving at the front you have to basicaly do everything yourself.

i know i've been over taken by a scooby on a long straight but in the corners i could say right behind it following it's line. (also helps been about 30mm from the floor, and suspension set up for fast driving/cornering. )

Edited 9 June, 200917 yr by pip_polo
i'm rubbish at spelling :(

i also think having a car infront means that you can brake/accelerate/turn when they do so can follow their lines etc.. where as when your driving at the front you have to basicaly do everything yourself.

I think it's a double-edged sword - the big problem is do you trust the person in front's decisions enough to "blindly follow them through" - I know I don't.

i know i've been over taken by a scooby on a long straight but in the corners i could say right behind it following it's line. (also helps been about 30mm from the floor, and suspension set up for fast driving/cornering. )

In road driving, I think it's important to remember that safety is the paramount factor and it's important to step back and drive your own drive and not allow yourself to become reliant on cars ahead, which at times may mean you're being held up and at other times may mean you choose to back off. Saying all that though, there is something quite rewarding about keeping a car wih 2.5x the power behind you on a nice stretch of twisty roads

Chris

just read over the whole thread again, we seemed not to have pointed the OP to another worthy read which im guessing he might not have come across.Roadcraft: The Essential Police Driver's Handbook: Police Foundation: Amazon.co.uk: Books

i also think having a car infront means that you can brake/accelerate/turn when they do so can follow their lines etc.. where as when your driving at the front you have to basicaly do everything yourself.

Contrarywise; unless the idiot in front is at least as fast as I am (well or significantly slower), they're likely to upset my rythmns and lines, and actually make me slower and less smooth than if I have a clear road and am travelling at my own chosen pace. That's maybe difficult to understand if you've never been on a drive with me (and no-one here has) but it's something that most people who have been on a drive with me have commented on.

Go to a race or rally school. I will corner hard round a bend that I carnt see round, you need to read the road, trees, poles, walls, surface and have some extra skill in reserve. Rallying is more similar to a road than racing, you drive the car so you have options of direction change at speed and you have some skill in sorting problems out and that comes from experience. I dont recomend it on the public highway.

If you give a rally driver a blind stage with no co-driver you would be shocked at the speed that he/she will drive at, probably only 20 sec slower than with the co-driver. The chance he/she will crash is a lot higher.

If you can sort a car out from danger you in theory can drive it closer to the limit.

Small cars usually corner better than large cars. Tyres play a big part, I annoy M3 drivers in my 1970's skoda round corners, he dosent know I have road legal tarmac rally tyres on does he! That will play with his mind, like it is with yours and he will try too hard (and that's racing tactics for you).

Go to a race or rally school. I will corner hard round a bend that I can't see round...

...until I hit the diesel spill, pothole, dead animal

No I wont, I will have the car set up in oversteer in to the corner and I will use more than the normal road. If I see what I think is a very slippy patch either tweak the turning so in theory you are heading for the grass on the inside to compensate, or even hook a wheel off the inside of the road. Grass is quite grippy when dry. I dont see the road as my only option and you should always be looking for the straightest line that you can get on the power as early as possible. Use the least steering input ie use the brakes/throttle to turn the car as much as you can, steering slows you down.

If you brake the weight goes to the front ie the front wheels will gain extra grip unless you lock them, this will give you extra turn in. If you plant your foot on the throttle the weight goes to the back and therefore you get more grip at the rear. Just by using the brake to aid turn in and throttle to aid grip to the rear through the corner you can increase your conering speed.

In a fwd leftfoot braking makes driving at very high speed safer, as it gives you more options of setting the angle of the car and controlling grip. It also pulls weight over all the whells to some degree, which = more load per tyre = more grip = faster cornering.

Again, dont try any of this on the public road. Left foot braking will take you about 1 year to get a good feel in your foot then you need to learn what it does and most modern cars will need mapping to cope with it.

Get yourself off to a rally school and pay for 1 to 1 tuition, those group things are a waste of time.

Ah, so you missed the bit where everyone else was talking about road driving!

I was a touch worried that he was describing driving on the road too, haha!

The problem is the more you push your limits the more reserve you have. Someone with great skill driving at 6/10ths will be quicker than learner driver at 9/10ths. That's the point.

Simple you should just ignore someone who is driving quicker than you on the road, you aint in a race, you are on the road. Take the IAM test and then go for some track/rally tuition if you want to learn road/fast driving.