Well I was told by a police trained advanced driver NOT to use the handbrake at junctions and leave a few extra meters in front if at lights as as the handbrake limits your options when the idiot behind comes screeching up behind you in the wet..

Well, I think you misheard what he told you! You've already given the reason why you SHOULD apply the handbrake! It's helps to prevent you from being shunted along when hit from behind. You are right that you are supposed to leave room in front of you. If you're behind another vehicle then being able to see the bottom of the tyres on the road is about right.

no - better to leave the handbrake OFF. reduces whiplash because if you see the car screeching up behind you you release the brake and allow your car to roll forward taking some of the energy out of the impact and reducing whiplash. makes a mess of the front of your car but is less painful !

Hello all! First post on the site, though I've had a good look at this section. We're looking for a new family car, a replacement for our faithful Volvo S60 D5 SE Auto that has done 105k mostly motorway miles. We need a quiet, comfortable and spacious car that's good to drive with good fuel economy. The S60 is great, but it has restricted rear-seat access and no hatchback. We need to carry older family and friends in the back or grandchild's car seat and four adults.

Having tested the Superb and Volvo V70 D5, we're almost set on the following: 2.0 TDI CR Elegance DSG in Cappuccino Beige, ivory leather, 18" Luna alloys. Extras: floor mats, nets in boot, heated washer nozzles, upgraded sound system, 3 spoke multi-function steering wheel, auto-dimming rearview mirror.

Any comments or advice, and anyone any pictures of the Cappuccino Beige?

I may be well qualified to comment as my last car (prior to Sep 08) was an D5 S60 and my second new Superb, which I expect mid Feb, will be the same spec as yours.

I enjoyed my D5 but it is a tractor compared to the Superb, which is much smoother. And much roomier too, of course, ideal for the uses you describe. One thing which I am particularly pleased with is the relatively small turning circle; the Volvo was particularly bad and got me in lots of tight spots.

A replacement D5 to my spec was quoted at over £28000, so the saving is useful. The colour combination is attractive but that is a subjective viewpoint of course. I don't think you will be disappointed

If you are curious about my first Superb, look at the forum under my name.

I had not read all of this thread when I wrote my previous reply.

I think front sensors are essential on this car and if you have those, it makes no sense not to specify the Park Assist, for a small extra sum.

I had not tried the Park Assist in the month I drove mine. It is a car that I find hard to get used to- more a reflection on me than the car. But it will happen and I look forward to trying the PA. in due course.

Of course, the Hill Hold is important. To me it is another essential.

Well I was told by a police trained advanced driver NOT to use the handbrake at junctions ...

Sweeping generalisations can lead to further bad driving practices.

Firstly, police drivers are specifically trained to make progress as safely as possible, especially in the circumstances of attending an incident. This could be summed up in the phrase "ready to go, but prepared to stop," when applied to junctions, etc. This driver training is not suitable or necessary for the average motorist, because they do not have to undertake such emergency duties, although a lot of the elements are beneficial. It does NOT mean that you should ignore the handbrake at a junction, because there are circumstances when it is still essential.

Overall "scanning" observation and planning the drive to suit the conditions ahead, takes much practice and skilled, interactive instruction. Snippets, such as the one you quote above, are not helpful at all and making them an excuse for inconsiderate driving is equally unimpressive.

... and leave a few extra meters in front if at lights

This part of the quote is, by contrast, sound advice in some circumstances and locations. However, it still relies on all-round observation and planning and does not either rule out, or prevent, the use of the handbrake. Simply leaving the extra distance should not become an automatic or everday practice, because adopting it will simply lead to frustration of other road users when it's inappropriate.

Indicators should always be used ..

No. The blanket, automatic use of indicators is the most obvious example of lazy and thoughtless driving. Indicators should be used when their use will assist another road-user (including pedestrians). How do you know when to use them? - observation and mirrors! It is the "blanket" use without this observation that leads to phrases like "Where did he come from" and "I just didn't see him." For most drivers, this is the skill that wanes first, because they simply bang on the indicator without first checking to see if anyone will benefit from it. OK, most of the time there is, but the assumption that there is leads to an ever-increasing lack of mirror checks and all-round observation.

There is a vast difference between progressive and aggressive driving and a similar difference between careless and inattentive. Driving is a skill that can be continually improved upon, but it takes effort, concentration and responsibility - there aren't any shortcuts.

Ray

Ray....couldn't agree more with your comment about indicators.

I clearly remember my driving instructor telling me this when learning to drive..."only when they are of use to other road users"...however, as you say, in 2008, especially in urban areas and on motorways it is very rare that there isn't another road user around.

Dan

no - better to leave the handbrake OFF. reduces whiplash because if you see the car screeching up behind you you release the brake and allow your car to roll forward taking some of the energy out of the impact and reducing whiplash. makes a mess of the front of your car but is less painful !

I think a little more driving instruction is appropriate!

Well, glad the thread developed into an interesting conversation on driving techniques. Many thanks for all the suggestions and comments.

We decided against front sensors, park assist, hill hold, despite the advice. We drive a manual as well and a previous car was an automated manual, so we're happy we can cope without the hill hold. Front sensors was a bit of a debate, but we try to park the car boot first where possible. You saved us the cost of the 6-CD changer, we confirmed the dash slot is fine for CD. We added plastic wood, thinking it went better with the Ivory colour option (and we're used to light coloured leather and not worried about that).

Order now placed after a haggle and a brief diversion into a second-hand Audi A8 (bargain relative to list price, lovely car but not sufficiently practical). We understand a price rise is programmed for January, though whether that means anything in this market, who knows? We now await a delivery date.

Front sensors was a bit of a debate, but we try to park the car boot first where possible.

I used to do that, but I drive in and reverse out nowadays. My reasoning is that if someone bangs into the boot, I'll be able to drive home, whereas damage to the front, especially the radiator, might be a different matter.

Ray.

I used to do that, but I drive in and reverse out nowadays. My reasoning is that if someone bangs into the boot, I'll be able to drive home, whereas damage to the front, especially the radiator, might be a different matter.

Ray.

i like your logic

is that waht is meant by "defensive driving" ?? !!!

I think a little more driving instruction is appropriate!

??? it was a serious point ?

i like your logic

is that waht is meant by "defensive driving" ?? !!!

It's a small part of it. It's mainly common-sense anyway - things like when waiting to turn right off a major road into a minor one' date=' keep the steered wheels facing straight ahead until actually making the turn. If you're parked with the wheels already facing to the right and are rear-ended, you'll be pushed across into oncoming traffic.

A colleague of mine was motorcycling along a straight road when the car in the opposite lane was shunted from the rear by an inattentive lorry driver, straight across his path. Had he not been aware of the [b']possibility[/b], he might not have survived that. Defensive driving is being on the lookout for - and the ability to spot - those possibilities.

Perhaps we need a new "Driving" thread, rather than keep taking this one OT?

Ray.

Sweeping generalisations can lead to further bad driving practices.

Firstly, police drivers are specifically trained to make progress as safely as possible, especially in the circumstances of attending an incident. This could be summed up in the phrase "ready to go, but prepared to stop," when applied to junctions, etc. This driver training is not suitable or necessary for the average motorist, because they do not have to undertake such emergency duties, although a lot of the elements are beneficial. It does NOT mean that you should ignore the handbrake at a junction, because there are circumstances when it is still essential.

Hmmm...agree but it wasnt a police driver training course I was on it was a course run specifically to reduce the risk of our drivers being involved in an accident - I mentioned the police driver training qualification to indicate the bloke knew what he was on about and it wasn't just my own driving experience, clean license and no claims bonuses recommending it.

Incidently RedDog I didn't miss-hear him as he was sat in the passenger seat giving me one-to-one tuition - I had and still have perfect hearing thankyou very much.

I repeat the ability to pull forwards a few feet and react quickly has saved me money and probably injury. As pointed out by others in this thread you are more likely to experience whiplash with the handbrake on. I'm not saying never use the handbrake because obivously its fitted to cars for a reason but I'm just saying there are legitmate reasons for not doing so and I don't care you find my brake lights a strain on your eyes - if you have eye problems perhaps you should seek the advice of an optician before driving .

Overall "scanning" observation and planning the drive to suit the conditions ahead, takes much practice and skilled, interactive instruction. Snippets, such as the one you quote above, are not helpful at all and making them an excuse for inconsiderate driving is equally unimpressive.

Didn't say it was an excuse not to use them - I specifically said that indicators should always be used which you disagree with later in your post, can you please at least be consistant and quote me in context, I was simply pointing out that it was possible to predict a vehicles motion on a roundabout without the use of indicators in good visibility and IMHO using them incorrectly is far worse. The fact it takes practice and experience is obivous - hence the installation of indicator lights on cars.

This part of the quote is, by contrast, sound advice in some circumstances and locations. However, it still relies on all-round observation and planning and does not either rule out, or prevent, the use of the handbrake. Simply leaving the extra distance should not become an automatic or everday practice, because adopting it will simply lead to frustration of other road users when it's inappropriate.

Yes obivously the use of common sense is nesscary when driving a vehicle.

No. The blanket, automatic use of indicators is the most obvious example of lazy and thoughtless driving. Indicators should be used when their use will assist another road-user (including pedestrians). How do you know when to use them? - observation and mirrors! It is the "blanket" use without this observation that leads to phrases like "Where did he come from" and "I just didn't see him." For most drivers, this is the skill that wanes first, because they simply bang on the indicator without first checking to see if anyone will benefit from it. OK, most of the time there is, but the assumption that there is leads to an ever-increasing lack of mirror checks and all-round observation.

You are taking me out of context again - this was on a post about driving whilst on a round-a-bout. Again no-where did I say don't use your mirrors and drive like a moron or implied it. I concede that they should not be used as excuse for not being aware of the vehicles around you but on a round-about when they should be used to indicate to traffic what you intend to do full stop end of sentence.

There is a vast difference between progressive and aggressive driving and a similar difference between careless and inattentive. Driving is a skill that can be continually improved upon, but it takes effort, concentration and responsibility - there aren't any shortcuts.

Absolutely agree. However you'll forgive me if I listen to the police trained, advanced driver, the one-to-one tuition he gave me and my own experience rather then you Ray.

Your post is a typical example of "a little knowledge being a dangerous thing," when you opine about something, then claim it's "advanced police trained."

"However you'll forgive me if I listen to the police trained, advanced driver, the one-to-one tuition he gave me and my own experience rather then you Ray."

I have nothing to forgive and will not argue the point further, although a glance at my profile would have shown that I might know a little bit about the subject.

RG

Your post is a typical example of "a little knowledge being a dangerous thing," when you opine about something, then claim it's "advanced police trained."

"However you'll forgive me if I listen to the police trained, advanced driver, the one-to-one tuition he gave me and my own experience rather then you Ray."

I have nothing to forgive and will not argue the point further, although a glance at my profile would have shown that I might know a little bit about the subject.

RG

"we are not worthy"....just checked your profile and i think we have picked an argument with the wrong person !!!

you are the most qualified person to talk on this subject by a mile !!

Incidently RedDog I didn't miss-hear him as he was sat in the passenger seat giving me one-to-one tuition - I had and still have perfect hearing thankyou very much.

Well, if you didn't miss hear him then I feel he was giving you the wrong advice! And as for the fact he was an advanced police driver I would venture to add that he is not the only one in the world!!

Sweeping generalisations can lead to further bad driving practices.

It does NOT mean that you should ignore the handbrake at a junction, because there are circumstances when it is still essential.

I agree. This year I undertook training with an IAM observer before then taking and passing my Advanced Test. When coming to a halt at a junction or roundabout I was encouraged to first apply the HANDBRAKE and then select neutral (using a manual vehicle).

Overall "scanning" observation and planning the drive to suit the conditions ahead, takes much practice and skilled, interactive instruction. Snippets, such as the one you quote above, are not helpful at all and making them an excuse for inconsiderate driving is equally unimpressive.

Once again, I agree that constant scanning of the road in front AND behind is essential to become aware of potential hazards etc. It demands a high level of concentration at all times.

No. The blanket, automatic use of indicators is the most obvious example of lazy and thoughtless driving. Indicators should be used when their use will assist another road-user (including pedestrians). How do you know when to use them? - observation and mirrors! It is the "blanket" use without this observation that leads to phrases like "Where did he come from" and "I just didn't see him." For most drivers, this is the skill that wanes first, because they simply bang on the indicator without first checking to see if anyone will benefit from it. OK, most of the time there is, but the assumption that there is leads to an ever-increasing lack of mirror checks and all-round observation.

Before joining the IAM I used to indicate automatically. Since then, I have learned you need only indicate when there is someone who would benefit from your signal (driver, pedestrian, cyclist, horse rider etc). This is quite liberating and makes perfect sense!

I wholeheartedly recommend anyone wishing to improve their driving skills to undertake IAM training. Your driving will never be the same again! Some Insurers will also offer a discount which will offset some of the course fee.

Anyway, forgetting the talk about hand brakes and all of that, I went through a similar process in choosing the Skoda Superb as my next vehicle.

Having gone from an Audi A4 to a Passat Highline it seemed an obvious move to try an Octavia so i had one on my hit list for a test drive till I heard about the Superb, I work with a lot of people who look at the badge before the car and a friend recently brought an A4 S for 4 grand more than a new PAssat Highline ( look at the specs and the costs, it should be an easy choice for those not badge orientated).

Anyway, the others on my hit list were a 7 seater ( Ford S Max), A Jag or Merc (I'm in my fourties), A Coupe (don't want to be in my fourties - Tried the new Passat CC - lovely looking car but look at the specs/cost), A Mondeo (well you have to really ( great car - bit bulky - same story) looked at Volvo's but never really liked them, then thought about an A3 or Golf then realised I like my space and comfort.

My top two were the Passat CC and the Skoda (once I ignored Skoda fleet services and went to a dealer to get a test drive in the model I wanted..if Skoda are reading this what does it cost to have a fleet of test drives available in different specs rather than just an 140PD SE), I did get the chance to have the first one available from them, but I like to know and try what I am getting, not much to ask I guess. Well I referee football so I like getting my way:cool:

Much as I love the CC the Superb was great and you can't knock the spec of the elegance, then it was down to the engine choice and the emissions came into play as well as power, so the 140PD was not even contemplated. Then its just a matter of what else you add on. For some strange reason I added the Park assist as it was demo'd to me in the CC and it is a nice GIMMICK, but I wanted the front sensors and the cost differential was not significant. Colour choice - I went fron Anth Grey with Black interior, I have Ivory in the Passat I have and once it starts to wear you notice it.

Anyway, The Superb I feel is an intelligent choice, just ignore all the badge drivers and leave them to the Golf course.

Now just waiting for a hopeful January delivery if the girl at the lease company has actually done what she says.

Back on track, eh, erniem? It will be interesting to see if the lease route gets you a car so much faster than a dealer order...

I found some pics for you incase you are still looking for them...

AutoScout24: Detailseite

http://www.autotrader.nl/auto/kopen/Skoda/SUPERB/2432199/algemeen.htm?sortering=PRIJS_AFLOPEND&merken=Skoda&modellen=Superb&paginaNummer=1&total=103&pos=9

Dont let the prices of the second link scare you

those are the extreme high car prices in holland

interesting how they get two-tone cloth seats that are full memory electric seats !

those dutch prices are scary !!! thats about 10k more than i paid for a fully loaded elegance model !!

Back on track, eh, erniem? It will be interesting to see if the lease route gets you a car so much faster than a dealer order...

Yes, especially as I saw a note somewhere saying they were going to stop manufacturing for a while at the start of January.

Other than the Parking Assist, I went for dimming mirror, rear blinds & floor mats, so I guess its a pretty standard build.

It seems that they have scheduled builds of certain configs, so it might be worth speaking to a dealer as they may tell you a slightly adjusted spec that will get you a car a bit earlier, I got that from my local dealer.

interesting how they get two-tone cloth seats that are full memory electric seats !

those dutch prices are scary !!! thats about 10k more than i paid for a fully loaded elegance model !!

I ordered a 170pk TDI manual ambition ( SE in the UK i think ) with a few options like 17" wheels, phone prep III, dimming mirror, gangster glass, lowered suspension, sound system and a few other small things, total 39.000 euro.

I wanted the elegance but that one added up to 42.000 so i had to pick the SE.

http://www.skoda.nl/media/downloads/Prijslijsten/Superb_II_sept08_web.pdf

Take a look at page 5

And our elegance does not come with a columbus and 18"

why are cars so expensive in holland ?. a fully loaded elegance in the uk is about €26000

We have a extra tax called BPM, its about 45% of the 'normal' price that gets added. they use it for several things like keeping the roads in good shape ( weird because we also pay road tax :eek: )

One advantage is that here in Holland the roads are very good compared to other countries, you wont find any holes or bumps in it!

Denmark is worse, about 53.000 euro for a 170pk tdi SE