Specialist subject the b100dy obvious - Since you have a dyno report of peak power at 6_500, your rev counter doesn't read right!

at 6400 you can see it dropping off. Im also quite sure the more the car spends of its life around the red zone the shorter its life will be.

Like ive said anyone want to come try feel free, just remember bend it you mend it:D

I'm not advocating ragging a car regularly; just saying that since your car has been revved higher (based on a well calibrated external gauge) than its rev counter says it can rev, then its rev counter must be wrong.

As a discussion point on the original subject... My IAM examiner told me at the start of the test not to speed (obviously) and not to cross the white line unless overtaking or turning at a junction. When I was out with observers I was told pretty much to stay on my side of the road, but stay close to the edge on right hand bends to improve visability and cut towards the apex of the white line and on left hand bends to stay close to the line (where safe to do so) and cut towards the apex of the corner.

In every day driving though I'm more than happy to cut over the whiteline and on B/unclassified roads I generally straddle where the white line would be if it had one.

Oh, and i regularly take the Fab up to around or just over 4k as it seems to like the revs.

I have a friend who was involved with IAM around its inception and it was basically police driving for civilians and did include much more advanced techniques than the current IAM/RoSPA syllabus, especially considering there was no NSL at that time. Today, the IAM has concerns that the majority of observers do not have sufficient training to be able to teach these techniques and that there is a risk of people using them inappropriately. So, rather than making sure they can teach it safely, they're now actively discouraged

I remember having a discussion with a RoSPA observer who was very keen that I did not stray over the white lines, for example on a S/C road where being offside would have developed my view of the road ahead nicely, because it was frowned upon. However, part of that same road was freshly resurfaced and hadn't been painted yet. I asked him if I was able to "offside" now as I wouldn't be crossing any white lines and his response was that it was perfectly acceptable as there was no paint

In my experience, examiners tend to have mixed views on these techniques and some will discourage you from doing it at all, and others will praise you if you choose to do it (and do it well). My suggestion if you want to develop it as a skill would be to get some paid-for coaching from one of the police class 1 drivers (eg through RideDrive or similar) or high performance coaches

Chris

My suggestion if you want to develop it as a skill would be to get some paid-for coaching from one of the police class 1 drivers (eg through RideDrive or similar) or high performance coaches

Chris

Shame you live so far away

Shame you live so far away

but a drive over to scoobychris and back would be cheaper than going to a professional not that chris isnt professional :P

As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for

I'd be happy to help anyone out but my coaching and driving is certainly not on a par with trafpol or high performance coaches like Don Palmer. I think it's fair to say the price I charge for a drive out reflects this though, ie nothing :rofl:

Chris

and some friendly banter

As a discussion point on the original subject... My IAM examiner told me at the start of the test not to speed (obviously) and not to cross the white line unless overtaking or turning at a junction. When I was out with observers I was told pretty much to stay on my side of the road, but stay close to the edge on right hand bends to improve visability and cut towards the apex of the white line and on left hand bends to stay close to the line (where safe to do so) and cut towards the apex of the corner.

In every day driving though I'm more than happy to cut over the whiteline and on B/unclassified roads I generally straddle where the white line would be if it had one.

Which is generally good advice, except that IMO the only time you should straddle a white line other than to improve your sightline without impeding oncoming traffic is when you are not impeding oncoming traffic and are:-

1) Preventing damage to your vehicle from overhanging branches etc.

2) Avoiding potholes or standing water.

3) Passing something on your nearside.

Edited 22 January, 200917 yr by ncarring
Needed to reword, fix quote markers (nc)

My understanding is that Roadcraft doesn't say 'rev the **** out of it' but the Police are told to drive in the most 'flexible' gear.

That generally means that you should be driving at or just below peak power. That way if you need to accelerate out of trouble it will move when you floor it. And if you lift your foot the vehicle will begin to slow without the immediate need for braking.

Out of interest who here is response driver trained and to what level? I'm trained in standard vehicles, in other words not T5s! :(

I'd say that the "most flexible gear" is the one where you're at about peak torque. If you have to accelerate you've got a fair amount of revs to use before you have to change up, and if you have to brake good engine braking will happen even before your foot reaches the brake pedal. If you have to brake for a significant time, you also have time whilst braking to select a suitable gear for when you need to accelerate again.

I'd agree with Ken. Peak power in petrol cars is usually close to the top of the rev range, so if you're constantly driving at this point, you're going to be a) short of room for manoeuvre if you need to accelerate, and deaf!

Just to add to what Nick and Ken have said, in essence torque is what gets you moving and power is what keeps you moving so if you drive the car around peak torque, you should have the maximum available acceleration should you need it up to peak power (which is where acceleration will taper off). This is why in a petrol you usually need to drop down a gear as peak torque is typically above comfortable cruising revs. By contrast, it may be advantageous to change up a gear in a diesel if the cruising revs are above peak torque.

Most mainstream car manufacturers will calibrate their rev counters so that peak torque is around where the needle is pointing vertically and this certainly seems to ring true of the cars I've owned. Peak power will be towards the top end of the rev range and you should be able to feel (through the "butt-dyno") where the power begins to taper off. It'll usually be within 1k of the red band on the rev counter.

Chris

My understanding is that Roadcraft doesn't say 'rev the **** out of it' but the Police are told to drive in the most 'flexible' gear.

That generally means that you should be driving at or just below peak power. That way if you need to accelerate out of trouble it will move when you floor it. And if you lift your foot the vehicle will begin to slow without the immediate need for braking.

Out of interest who here is response driver trained and to what level? I'm trained in standard vehicles, in other words not T5s! :(

I always understood roadcraft to educate you to drive with engine sympathy in mind i.e. not rag the car. But the video shows them ragging it and my first IAM drive out was with a guy in a 1.0 peogot car and he was red lining it nearly put me off, however my examiner was great, i told him i have been shown three different ways, SAFED, Sympathy and roadcraft video (police one) where they rag it. His attitude was that i drove with engine sympathy in mind and safe, but making progress. He didnt want to see me ragging it and driving like they do on the roadcraft video (he said he would be rather worried).

Personally i think those (members of the public) going for an advance test e.g. IAM) need to really go out with scoobychris and be pushed to your limits driving to what is safe for the road conditions then when you come to the test and drive how they want you to (not creeping over 30 in 30 limit etc) you will breeze through it as you be going at a slower pace etc. My examiner found my commentry excellent and one of the best in years as i practiced it at fast speeds so when i got to do it on my test i was able to give him the details he needed to hear and not sit there wondering what to tell him i can see.

His attitude was that i drove with engine sympathy in mind and safe, but making progress. He didnt want to see me ragging it and driving like they do on the roadcraft video (he said he would be rather worried).

Funnily enough I was out with an IAM observer this afternoon who commented that the examiners love associates to use full throttle wherever possible (as this maximises progress) but that a lot fall short of delivering this smoothly which can give the impression of ragging the car, especially with snatched gear changes, and not being in full control.

Personally i think those (members of the public) going for an advance test e.g. IAM) need to really go out with scoobychris and be pushed to your limits driving to what is safe for the road conditions then when you come to the test and drive how they want you to (not creeping over 30 in 30 limit etc) you will breeze through it as you be going at a slower pace etc. My examiner found my commentry excellent and one of the best in years as i practiced it at fast speeds so when i got to do it on my test i was able to give him the details he needed to hear and not sit there wondering what to tell him i can see.

Thanks for the endorsement - I try and help Just to re-iterate though, I expect people who drive me to comply with red-ring speed limits, but I'll turn a blind eye in NSL so long as I'm comfortable an appropriate safe speed has been chosen. One of the things I see often is people driving far too fast in the slow bits and far too slow in the fast bits so I try to impress on people that speed is related to hazard density rather than the number on the stick. Of course ultimately it's their license so their choice

Glad your commentary dazzled the examiner. We'll have to meet up for another drive some time so you can give me some tips as mine is still a bit disjointed

Chris

sounds good to me might need to practice it again as i havent done it in weeks the commentry out loud as ive been lazy and done it in my head which we both know is easy in the head but harder out loud lol.

Yeah, I can think faster than I can talk or type (so often appear brighter than I am as a result)!

Just to resurrect this thread briefly, I stumbled across the following video which has some lovely examples of positioning (first 40 seconds or so) and thought I'd share it...

Chris