Hey chaps,

I'm getting 110% fed up with my Felicia Fun.

When I bought it in febuary 08, it had a new starter motor fitted to it just before i bought it.

This lasted until april when it gave up the ghost ( would not engae to the engine, kept fspinning then flicking its self off only to spin in free air). I had a new one fitted.

That lasted until january 09 (less than a week ago) and now it has just gone AGAIN.

they have all been new units (not recons) and i am very good friends with the garage so i know they are not pulling a fast one. They have been Unipart motors (except the original one) But I honestly think it is the bad-starting engine that is killing them.

the truck has great difficulty starting unless it is at operating temperature. in the morning it takes over 4 - 5 attempts to start; giving it 100% gas and keeping the key turned is the only way.

I started the car about 20 minutes ago to move it out of the way to let my dad off the drive. parked it and came back int he house. it didnt start all that well when it did start.

5 mins later I went back out as I needed to go on a message. THe secon I turn the key, the starter motor is just spinning in free-air. it's not engaged to the engine what so ever.

what on earth could be causing these bad starts, and 4 motors in less than a year has to be a record no? it has around 115,000 miles on the clock.

Rick

Is there a bush in the gearbox bellhousing that the end of the starter sits in?

Have you had a look at the ring gear teeth?

Ditto

I've had ring teeth broken off in an old Favorit, the starter motor just spun without engaging

Is there a bush in the gearbox bellhousing that the end of the starter sits in?

no:)

had to change three in my fav so far iv had that 8 months maybe

pig aint it!

Solonoid rather than starter motor?

no:)

In that case I'd be looking at the ring gear on the flywheel.

Solonoid rather than starter motor?

Isn't the solenoid integrated on the starter most times nowadays, so it will have been changed?

Yes solenoid is part of starter. Suspect as has been said ringgear on flywheel, Next time it happens with the ign off in gear push the car forward so the engine moves a bit. select nuetral and retry to start if it does then it is more than likely the flywheel ring gear. Not sure if you can get ringgear seperate from flywheel or fit 2nd hand flywheel.

. Not sure if you can get ringgear seperate from flywheel or fit 2nd hand flywheel.

yeah you can, or at least you used to be able to, but to be honest it's an absolute sod of a job to fit it, you need to heat up the new ring gear with an acetelene torch then, but it's difficult getting even heat all around it..

i think nowadays they just sell the flywheels on exchange basis

I paid around £120 to have a new ring fitted at a small Skoda dealership but that was about 5 years ago.

Hi guys, sorry I did not reply.

I'm not mechanically educated, or at least when it comes to cars but I do have an idea, so i've been researching what has been said.

one of the first things I tried was putting it in reverse (car was in a position where it could not move forward) and pushed it back, whilst in gear. This was with the hope of moving the fly-wheel to a new postition incase that part of the ring-gear was damaged; still the same thing.

there is no other sound other than spinning. It is just as if you have wired a starter motor up outside of the car and turned it on. it's just not in mesh with the engine. No clicks or kicking.

We managed to bump start it and I dropped it off at the garage tonight. hopefully they will have an answer for me tomorrow

Any ideas on the appauling previous starting history? I've no doubt that when I get it back it still will not start properly and I'll try to upload a video of it. i've never seen a car that is so determined not to start!! I can go into more detail if needed.

If the starter motor is spinning, and the engine not starting, even after the car's been moved a foot or so in gear, that really does point to the solonoid not operating correctly for whatever reason. After 4 starters in a year, I'd expect the next one to be free!

The single small wire engages the solenoid and allows the starter to turn, so if the starter is turning there is no fault in the small wire circuit its just the solenoid not throwing to engage the gear so the fault must be in the starter. Hmmmmm........

Only 2 things i can think of at the mo. Is the battery too big/powerful and poss burning out the starter to early (long shot) or do you have an oil or leak of some sort down the block onto the starter motor, Will give it some more thought;)

Only 2 things i can think of at the mo. Is the battery too big/powerful and poss burning out the starter to early (long shot)

That's something I've never understood. How can a device be overloaded by supplying it from an oversize but correct voltage battery? By that logic mains distribution should be impossible, since domestic appliances dissipate at most kilowatts of power, but even a small commercial power station produces megawatts!

I know Ken as i said bit of long shot as the starter draws a certain amount of amps to achieve the correct cranking speed, I just thought if the battery was giving too many amps it would make the starter spin too fast (being a motor more amps would just make it turn faster as you know) and over a period of time would wear it out too early and as the solenoid is thrown with the full battery power behind it again over a period of time excessively hammering the solenoid combined with overheating the internal connections could cause it to fail

Sorry bit long winded and a bit of a long shot, just can't see how 4 starters have failed in such a short period????:confused:

Whereas my understanding was based on the reverse principle. I know it's possible to fry electrics by supplying them with too high a voltage (been there, done that, got the tee-shirt, all in the name of science), but as long as they get the right voltage I thought they would only draw what they were rated at.

HI guys,

I've just called the garage. I just spoke to one of the young lads there, he just said, as far as they can tell, its the starter - again.

They are getting new replacements from unipart, so I'm just paying a small bit of labour each time. although it is bloody anoying.

As far as I know, they tested the battery and it is fine. I've never had any issues with it before. I dont know enough about it to know, but in laymans terms I get the impression that the engine is just too stiff for the starter to turn over on the morning / cold start. I think it's just taking it's toll on the starters; that said I'd expect one to last more than a week

THanks for the help, I'll reply once i hear final verdict from the garage.

If the garage thinks the engine is "stiff" on that mileage, what sort of oil are you using in it!?

Also try starting the engine declutched.

I just thinking that Ken. We had a guy fit a 700 amp battery to his Focus 1.4, original battery 390 amp. No charging probs and he told us his slow cranking and starting probs had gone but he was burning starters out. The starters were spinning over too fast, The higher amp draw took the strain off and allowed the starter to spin easier against the compression etc.... The 700 amp was for a top of the range Focus ghia diesel with heated screen and all the elec. toys you could think of. No charging probs because the battery was fully charged when fitted and was hardly doing any work when started or used. Might have been different if the battery ever went flat would have killed his alternator

His starting probs turned out to be a cambelt not timed and tensioned correctly. Lucky guy, His mate had fitted it for him in the summer. He never drove fast so didn't notice the lack of power:rolleyes: fitted a new belt and put corect battery on and all probs cured, then he took it to his mate for a service:confused:

i'm sorry, but that is funny, electricity just simply doesn't work like that. a motor(or any load) will only draw as much current as it needs, it is not magically more if you have a bigger power source...

the only exception to this is if the battery is too small, a heavy load which exceeds the battery's limit will make a voltage drop or ruin the cell by overheating

Like i said it was a long shot just using the experience of that Focus. The guy was having problems starting so he put a mahoosive battery on and cured his problem but started wearing out starters. It was just an idea:( If you got a knackered starter that turns over slowely one of the test is to see if it has excessive amp draw which can be covered up putting more amps to it i.e. jump pack, your not increasing the volts just the available amps. that was all.:( I'll get my coat

Disregarding the starter motor fault, the most likely reason the engine needs to be turned over for so long to start when cold is a faulty coolant temperature sensor. Have you had the fault codes read?

I would try a different brand of starter motor, doesn't sound like the Unipart ones are very good!

Hi guys,

the thing i said about the engine being stiff was my words, not the garages'.

Right, they replaced the starter, didnt cost me anything this time. they replaced it with a Lucas motor instead of unipart. I started it from cold yesterday and took a video of it too. I've got to say it started better than usual. It was still showing similar signs as it did before though. I took a video of it.

this morning, it started better than usual too, but still not 100%

I've just got an aerosol of carb / injector cleaner. I removed the air filter assembly.

The oil breather hose has a hole in it, which I have taped up for now, i doubt this would cause a massive problem though would it?

anyway, I got to the air inlet, with the round butterfly type valve. It was not 'clean' but was harldy really dirty either. I cleaned it with the spray and sprayed some bursts into it whicht he car was idle. I cleaned the moving parts arounf it also, such as the throttle cable and so on. It's not sparkling clean (or so it looks)

I've just checked the oil I'm using and it is Halfords 15 /40 part synthetic. is this okay?

The guy next door has heard the car starting (on not) on a morning and he suspects it could be the valve guide seals ( i think that is correct) He explained that he seals could be letting oil throguh into the ignition chamber, and making it hard to start until it has cranked over a few times and eventually starts. I cant remember his exact words, but hopefully one of you talented guys will know what he means by this.

it made sense when he explained it :/

[edit]

Coolant sensor is fine, it was replaced on it's last service or MOT (cant remember which) it made no difference if i recall correctly.

thanks so far guys,

Rick

they do suffer a bit with valve guide wear but it's normally only on engines with a high mileage