Hi everyone

They have just done a comparison of Supermarket Vs Shell V power and BP ultimate Diesel. They found that the supermarket stuff gave 155 BHP and the other 2 gave 161 BHP in the same car they also said when useing them over a greater period of time the power increase could be even better. Has anyone else used and noticed a big difference when useing these diesels? also do they give a better MPG when you just want to Pootle about? as i may try a couple of tanks, now that i don't have to take out a loan to fill up anymore:rolleyes:

My wife has a large common rail turbocharged diesel engine in her 4x4 which is always run on Shell V-Power, it returns nearly 60 miles more per tank over the normal slurry from Sainsbury's, Esso, Texaco etc...

V-Power gets my vote!! (Petrol and diesel!....and no, I don't work for Shell either!!)

The extra it costs you get back in additional miles, it is not always an obvious saving though. It's better for your engine too.

Steve:)

3-5 mpg difference for me, and at xxx speeds, the difference grows. Thats derv and a tuned Fabia vRS, based on testing at similar speeds, same road.

Thanks steve :thumbup:thats made my mind up i will try next fillup.

Tom

about 400'000 miles on various engines and I can't say i noticed anything with the exception that v-power gave worse MPG than shell extra.

I'd never pay the extra, and even if it did get the extra MPG it wouldn't pay off the difference in cost.

Far better to spend the same money on extra oil changes and air filters than posh fuel imho.

Different for some petrol cars, but not for a derv.

I did run my last octy on more expensive diesel and could definitely tell a difference in the way it drove and see it in the MPG.

Trouble was , there was about a 6p premium for Ultimate over regular BP diesel , and about 4-5p difference between regular BP diesel and the cheaper alternatives.

That more than outweighed any savings based on increased mpg

Oh FFS

Another thread on this

You as in your "Average" road user running an average car will not notice the benefit. The main differences are in the cetane ratings and your ECU will adjust this out in a lot of cases with the ignition timing. I have used it all over 100,000's of miles in various cars including doing an extended test on Bp Ultimate when I had a fuel card, it was never worth the money. If you look at what I use now which is a mix of WVO and supermarket diesel (Works out about 85ppl for me) it gets just as much as normal diesel in terms of economy. (The last 3 months have seen an average of 53mpg)

At the moment the "good stuff" is 105.9ppl at my local Shell while the Sainsbury's "slurry" is 95.9ppl.

Using that as a base line lets have a look at how that works out;

Say your average car has a 60ltr tank. A tank of Snake oil will cost you £63.54 while a tank of Pikey will cost you just £57.64. Then say the Pikey does 50mpg meaning you get 660.8 miles out of the tank, if you get an extra 60 miles out of a tank of Snake oil you get 720.8 which is 54mpg. That extra 60 miles just cost you £5.90 extra or the equivilant of 1.2 gallons of Pikey which would cost you £5.22. In fact if you spent the same the Pikey would get you an extra 8 miles....

There is the thing about Snake oil being better for your engine etc.... I still don't get why all the manufacturers don't specify it In short if your car is serviced properly it will run for years with no issues and no loss of performance. I had 120k out of PD that ran on veg oil, it went 3 years ago and it's still going strong apparently as a pool car (Meaning it will get ragged everywhere).

Stop worry about this and worry about more important things like in 25 years time there won't be any diesel.

Running on bad fuel will shorten the life of your injection system, increase fuel consumption and worsen emissions, but describing Sainsbury's fuel as 'slurry' is a bit wide of the mark. Don't they get their derv from Greenergy? That's good stuff. It used to have the lowest sulphur content of any diesel fuel in Europe — so low that it caused wear problems in some old (pre-90s) injection pumps, as sulphur increases lubricity.

Ok Looks like its not cut and dried:confused: I personally have noticed a big difference in our local tesco's fuel and our local BP fuel (normal stuff). Sometimes it can be up to 50 miles per tank and i can only get about 48 litres max in my tank so it does for me make a difference. I will not go back to tesco. And i will let the goverments worry about where the diesel is going to come from in 25 years as it's out of my skill's set. I will worry about what goes in my tank as A) it will give me more money in my pocket and if it uses less diesel by definition it will help prolong the diesel until they come up with an alternative, And C) It will let me keep my car in better condition. I will try a few different types and i'm sure i will find the best one that suits my car and my pocket.

Tom

Watched it as well last night link to the item here

The Show - Fifth Gear

And to be honest if you have run your car on supermarket rubbish the difference is very noticable....smoother, better pickup, more mpg....(if you don't use the power too much)......not sure I notice any more power, but the car is better and easier to drive

It smoked notably less - I will add, for the purpose of fairness that using a cetane booster can also have a similar effect. For it being cost effective, that's another question entirely, it depends on your driving style, perhaps your map (?) and the price of the various fuels and additives available at the time.

It smoked notably less - I will add, for the purpose of fairness that using a cetane booster can also have a similar effect. For it being cost effective, that's another question entirely, it depends on your driving style, perhaps your map (?) and the price of the various fuels and additives available at the time.

Exactly. It's like asking what tyres are best. You will get 5 different answers. It's all subjective.

Running on bad fuel will shorten the life of your injection system, increase fuel consumption and worsen emissions, but describing Sainsbury's fuel as 'slurry' is a bit wide of the mark. Don't they get their derv from Greenergy? That's good stuff. It used to have the lowest sulphur content of any diesel fuel in Europe — so low that it caused wear problems in some old (pre-90s) injection pumps, as sulphur increases lubricity.

Indeed,

The ULSD derv killed a fuel pump on an XUD engine that had 250,000 miles on it, but was pre 1990 vintage.

The engines I've run over the years ran on the old derv that was kept in one corner out of the way and probably of a lesser quality than the standard stuff these days. No problems there.

The other point is that your fuel filter will take out any nasties that could damage the system, so best thing to do is to change the filter regularly and if it has a drain take out the water.

Water in the fuel will do far more damage to the fuel system than not using a super fuel with additives.

Also adding these lubricants etc to the fuel potentially decreases the amount of real hydrocarbon molecules per L of fuel. So it's a mixed bag really.

If I want extra lubrication and cleaning power I'd put millers in as this works out much cheaper than premium fuels.

It would be more interesting to see the torque curves rather than flat out power, which is rarely used. That would give a better indication of whether efficiency is improved.

If maximum power is increased, that does rather suggest that there's no loss of calorific value. Also a fuel that doesn't leave deposits around the valves is a neat idea — we've just got to decide for ourselves how much we want to pay for it.

As to water in the fuel, question this isn't quite as simple as it might seem. The filter will collect water that's wandering through the fuel system in the form of small droplets, but it will not collect or otherwise deal with 'bound' water. This is water that has mixed with the fuel at a near-molecular level. It goes straight through the fuel filter along with the fuel, and it can cause serious wear and internal corrosion to the fuel system.

(Before anyone complains, I should point out that there is no such thing as insolubility or immiscibility: just degrees of solubility and miscibility. Water mixes very poorly with diesel fuel, but the industrial processes involved in producing fuel can introduce a great deal of bound water.)

Stop worry about this and worry about more important things like in 25 years time there won't be any diesel.

Why is that worth worrying about. Will mean no more black Shiiite being pumped out of peoples exhausts:rofl::P

It would be more interesting to see the torque curves rather than flat out power, which is rarely used. That would give a better indication of whether efficiency is improved.

Power is the rate of production of torque: the power curve is the mathematical differential of the torque curve.

The downward force on the piston causes a rotational force at the crankshaft. This is torque. The notion of power comes from combining the force of each bang with the number of bangs in a given time. The torque curve falls off because of the realities of the combustion process: fuel takes a finite time to burn. Initially the increasing number of bangs makes up for the slowly waning force of each bang, but after a while the torque falls off to such an extent that increasing the crankshaft speed further just becomes counterproductive, and the power curve also tails off.

Which is a roundabout way of saying that if fuel A gives more power than fuel B, all other things being equal, it'll give more torque, too.

Why is that worth worrying about. Will mean no more black Shiiite being pumped out of peoples exhausts

Petrol engines produce no emissions. What you can't see doesn't exist. Catalysts are 100% efficient under all conditions. Thirty per cent. more carbon isn't much. Transitional load emissions spikes are unique to diesels. Fish live in trees and eat pencils.

Thats a load of ********!

Fish don't eat pencils!

Why is that worth worrying about. Will mean no more black Shiiite being pumped out of peoples exhausts:rofl::P

The fuel isn't going to be the factor that people think it is with smoking. Do you know what the black smoke actually is? It's going to more to do with the local environment and ambient conditions than it ever is to do with the fuel.

If SuperDerv cleans injectors then can't you just stick a tank through every now and then?

Or does it not work like drain cleaner!

If SuperDerv cleans injectors then can't you just stick a tank through every now and then?

Or does it not work like drain cleaner!

Nope, it takes "a few tanks" for it to be effective therefore costing you far more than just using a good and far more effective cleaner periodically.

The fuel isn't going to be the factor that people think it is with smoking. Do you know what the black smoke actually is? It's going to more to do with the local environment and ambient conditions than it ever is to do with the fuel.

Alright nibble it was only a sarcastic joke:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Besides i do know what the black smoke is. It's Black smoke of course:P:rofl:

Like im bothered anyhow about the environment and ambient conditions. I'll be lonnnnnng gone before it has any real effect and until then im gonna use my ultra clean emission free petrol and give the to all those heathens that use that inferior fuel that is diesel.

Until i buy a 2.0 CRTDi vRS then i will change my tune accordingly :P

Carl:thumbup:

Power is the rate of production of torque: the power curve is the mathematical differential of the torque curve.

The downward force on the piston causes a rotational force at the crankshaft. This is torque. The notion of power comes from combining the force of each bang with the number of bangs in a given time. The torque curve falls off because of the realities of the combustion process: fuel takes a finite time to burn. Initially the increasing number of bangs makes up for the slowly waning force of each bang, but after a while the torque falls off to such an extent that increasing the crankshaft speed further just becomes counterproductive, and the power curve also tails off.

Which is a roundabout way of saying that if fuel A gives more power than fuel B, all other things being equal, it'll give more torque, too.

Indeed. But my attempted point was that 5th gear only looked at one aspect - the top end. The shape of the curve(s) might give more useful information, as indeed did the Evo tests on higher octane fuels. There was a greater benefit in mid-range than the top end!

Have used Ultimate, V-power and Total's version. ALL returned lower MPG.

So I stick with 95ron in the octy, just as I did in my Mk1. Runs fine, except Mk1 loved Texaco (best running and MPG return - worst Tesco) where as Mk2 loves BP or Tesco and runs pap on everything else.

It's worth noting that every engine likes different fuels. You should always find which garage sells the fuel yours likes rather than buying it because you think it's good.

Works car (Derv Mondeo) runs pap on BP, but I get points and dont pay for it, so it'll bloody well like it!