I have noticed this for a while and it seems to be getting a bit worse. When the car has been parked up for some time (generally more than 60 minutes), sometimes when I am in 2nd and 3rd, around 2300rpm (revs going up) I get stutter / kangeroo motion from the car. This is coupled with a relay which clicks down in the drivers footwell / fusebox area.

The relay seems to click when the car is cold and goes over about 2300rpm, and clicks again when the rpms drop beneath that (ie, when changing gear). This only seems to happen for the first 1/4 of a mile or so. Same applies to the sutter, once I have been up through the gears once then it seems the "problem" has vanished.

Up till last night it has just been one or two stutters, but last night it was about 5, and I could hear this relay clicking away too. I then reached a bit of NSL road, and put my foot down and the car was fine (well as fine as my TDi has ever been).

Anyone know what relay is clicking, and what the cause of this stutter might be? I am sure I posted about 18+ months ago about the relay clicking when pulling away from cold, but I did not have the stutter back then. Seem to recall I was on my own with the relay clicking noise back then.

Car is 2001, 110 TDi, unmodded. Have replaced the turbo in the past, N75 (twice) and the MAF. Have not checked for fault codes yet - will try and do that later today or tomorrow.

Cheers,

Matt

The clicking is the 109 relay I believe, mine does that when it's cold. Easy enough to change and it costs about £14 from the dealer (except they don't call it 109 relay even though that is what is printed on it). The relay could be the cause of the stutter so it's worth changing it, it's a 5 minute job.

If you take off the piece of trim at the bottom of the dash (in the top of the footwell) you can see the relays if you look up from the footwell and there is enough space to reach up and pull it out.

I borrowed some stuff from a scrap yard a while ago, I'll see if a 109 was in my bag of goddies.

I know that the 109 relay crops up from time to time, but what is meant to control?

Edited 20 February, 200917 yr by mbames
spelling!

Glow plugs, ecu and a load of other stuff I think.

Is that borrowed as in stuffed your pockets?

Glow plugs, ecu and a load of other stuff I think.

Sound like it should be worth swapping over then.... I think I might have a failing glowplug or two, as sometimes when it starts up there is a good old smelly (diesel) cloud of smoke when it is cold. However it always starts first go - even when the weather was a bit colder, so I won't worry about that for the moment!

Is that borrowed as in stuffed your pockets?

Something like that. Well I had to remove a front nearside door glass in the pouring rain and they would not even do a deal for cash, so I did my own deal

Can anyone confirm if the relay could cause cold start problems, Ive just had mine looked at & the garage are convinced the glo plugs dont stay on for long enough. Theyve fitted new ones anyway as 2 were knackerd but they have done 135000 so cant really complain. I will see tomorow am if I still get the cloud of smoke

Theyve fitted new ones anyway as 2 were knackerd but they have done 135000 so cant really complain. I will see tomorow am if I still get the cloud of smoke

Mine are on 145k at the moment.....

I have changed the glow plugs and 109 relay and it was still not starting well, so I had the timing checked (thanks to greg123) and it was so retarded it only just made it onto the bottom of the graph in vagcom.

Got the timing sorted and it now starts perfectly.

Stuart_J - I had a problem with the glow plug light going out too quickly when cold, changing the relay sorted it though.

Changing glow plugs is dead easy, it's a 10min job. As easy as spark plugs, they didn't look too good after 60k compared to the new ones either.

I might check my timing too. Mine always starts quickly, it is just this stutter once it is going down the road....

Checked for fault codes yesterday, and got this old chestnut again:

VAG-COM Version: Release 303.1

Matt's car shop :-)

Control Module Part Number: 038 906 012 CL

Component and/or Version: 0000SG 3316

Software Coding: 00002

Work Shop Code: WSC 31480

Additional Info: TMBGP21U512486883 VWZ7Z0Y3096563

1 Faults Found:

17965 - Charge Pressure Control: Positive Deviation

P1557 - 35-00 - -

Checked for fault codes yesterday, and got this old chestnut again:

VAG-COM Version: Release 303.1

Matt's car shop :-)

Control Module Part Number: 038 906 012 CL

Component and/or Version: 0000SG 3316

Software Coding: 00002

Work Shop Code: WSC 31480

Additional Info: TMBGP21U512486883 VWZ7Z0Y3096563

1 Faults Found:

17965 - Charge Pressure Control: Positive Deviation

P1557 - 35-00 - -

Sticky turbo problem?

Sticky turbo problem?

Already had the turbo changed once, and I don't hang about when I drive, I do 120 mile round trip to work every day. Apparently the old turbo was ok when it came off. To me I have always felt that the issue is not with the turbo unit itself, but vaccuum / controller related, but nothing I change ever seems to cure it!

And why should I only get this stutter/relay click when the car is cold / first 1/2mile of driving? Once it has stuttered, then it does not do it again for the remainder of the trip.

The relay clicking thing is normal when it's cold, mine has always done it and still does since I changed the relay. Mine seems to click when ou go above about 2.5k revs and again when the revs drop back down below this level, I assume it's something to do with keeping the engine running properly while cold as it stops once the engine is warm. If you get the clicking at other times and it goes with the stutter I would change the relay.

As for the turbo could it be a vacuum leak from a pipe which feeds the thingy (N75?) which controls the vanes in the turbo?

The relay clicking thing is normal when it's cold, mine has always done it and still does since I changed the relay. Mine seems to click when ou go above about 2.5k revs and again when the revs drop back down below this level, I assume it's something to do with keeping the engine running properly while cold as it stops once the engine is warm. If you get the clicking at other times and it goes with the stutter I would change the relay.

As for the turbo could it be a vacuum leak from a pipe which feeds the thingy (N75?) which controls the vanes in the turbo?

Arh, at last someone else who has heard this relay click when cold.... :-) Clicking and stutter both only occur when cold. I have changed my coolant sensor (4pin) about 18+ months ago for a green (rather than black, iirc) one, but that had little affect at the time.

The pipe is next on my list of things to change. I did note the fabric outer was looking a little chaffed in places the other day, so got to be worth 10 minutes of time taking the tray off the underside of the car to do the job.....

I'd never noticed the clicking until someone else pointed it out, now I always notice it...

No relay clicks for me this afternoon (car was shifted out of the garage at about 10.00am, but it is mild outside). I justed sucked down the vacuum hose to the turbo and I could feel the other mechanism working, and the pipe did not seem to leak, and the car was pulling well - maybe it will last until I drive to work tomorrow morning!

Can anyone confirm if the relay could cause cold start problems, Ive just had mine looked at & the garage are convinced the glo plugs dont stay on for long enough. Theyve fitted new ones anyway as 2 were knackerd but they have done 135000 so cant really complain. I will see tomorow am if I still get the cloud of smoke

Well its exactly the same when cold so it wasnt the glow plugs, relay next I guess, It shouldnt be the turbo on ours as that was changed. Temp sensor was also changed when the glowplugs were replaced

Have you tried pulling off the hose down to the turbo from the n75 and sucking on it? If you have a slim arm, you can feel the mechanism on the back of the turbo moving, so at least you know the vanes should be moving. I dunno how much vacuum the car generates, but I assume it would be more than I can do with my mouth?

I'll see if I can find the spare 109 relay, but I'll hang fire on changing it. I am off work ill today, but should be back tomorrow will see how the car performs then.

This morning a warmer day & hardly any smoke, also smoother cold running,

Have you ever had the injectors sonically cleaned or new nozzles on Stuart?

At about 80k miles onwards they can gum up a bit and the spray pattern can go to pot, sometimes spraying onto the walls of the chambers and causing a very bad burn. This makes the car much harder to start and would first become evident when cold.

Probably worth getting them checked and cleaned out if they have never been done on the car.

I wonder - could the problem be with the relay cycling rather than making (or breaking) and staying put, since people who don't hear it don't seem to have the same running issues?

I wonder - could the problem be with the relay cycling rather than making (or breaking) and staying put, since people who don't hear it don't seem to have the same running issues?

Wanna swap relays then Ken :-)

However could the relay cycling be caused by a faulty relay (although trundlenut changed his relay and has clicking), which might suggest maybe the issue is with what ever actually drives the relay.....

Sound like it should be worth swapping over then.... I think I might have a failing glowplug or two, as sometimes when it starts up there is a good old smelly (diesel) cloud of smoke when it is cold. However it always starts first go - even when the weather was a bit colder, so I won't worry about that for the moment!

Is yours on variable servicing ????

Ours is

I was chatting to a chap today whos a vag specialist & he said hes had a few that were on variable where the oil pumps were getting tired, longlife oil is thicker aparently & when cold the car with a tired pump takes a few seconds to get decent pressure & struggles to open the tappets properly initially causing rough running when first started. Aparently the pump wont fail & once at pressure will be fine so he said dont worry until the next service is due & change it then if I want to.

Anyone else any thoughts ??

Mine is on variable servicing too.. Mine does not seem to run rough though, it just gives this slight stutter around 2500rpm. From what I have determined this stutter will then normally mean that the turbo does not work (properly) after this, until I have pulled off the hose and sucked/blowed down it a few times. Turbo is then fine, no relay clicks, until I then get the stutter a few days later, and the boost from the turbo seems to drop off....

I have to say I thought that LL oil was thinner that fixed servicing oil? Maybe it gets thicker when it is full of rubbish. On average my car does 8-10 trips of approx 60 miles in a week, and the odd bit at weekends (pretty rare), so very rare for me to do short/slow town driving.

IME any oil thickens up with mileage; there are a number of comments on here from me about the engine being slightly tappetty on a cold start in the month or 2 before service.