AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

I am getting fed up now, i have been suffering with an irritating knocking sound since July 08.......

I have paid several visits to one garage with no success, (1st time told was a slightly loose bolt on a strut, 2nd time told it was o/s track rod end, 3rd time they couldn't find anything..... But after they did the track rod end the handling then went to pot and so about a week ago i took it in to another garage. They diagnosed that the rear wishbone bushes were fubared, so i ordered myself some cupra ones and took it back in on monday for them to be fitted.

So, monday afternoon, i picked the car up but didn't drive it far, just took it home. Last night, i took the car out for a spin and now i seem to have acquired a whole host of new rattles & squeaks from the suspension! :( and on a couple of occasions when i stopped to do a 3 point turn in the road i live in, as i put the steering into full lock, while still in motion (turning clockwise) just before it got to full lock, the steering appears to get heavy - i tried this a couple of times and it didn't do it every time. It doesn't feel like the power steering is failing as such, as it doesn't go heavy enough for that....... And now i have all theese other knocks and rattles that sound 10x worse than the one i took it in for! and yes, you guessed it..... The original knocking noise is still there too!

So, after work tonight i am going to call by the garage, and explain about all theese new issues that have arisen since they replaced the bushes, but, i was wondering if anyone could make any suggestions of anything they could of done wrong?

Is there anything that you can do wrong when replacing bushes?

Hope someone can help, it seems everytime i take it to a garage it comes back worse than it went in :(

Steve

Here's my previous posts about the issue if anyone wants to go back through them....

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/front-anti-roll-bar-knocking-maybe/117992/

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/track-rod-ends/131443/

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/knocking-handling-issues/134148/

It has been noted that fitting cupra & powerflex bushes may cause more vibrations. I suppose that could count for the rattles.

Did the garage do a wheel alignment check after fitting the bushes? This has to be carried out because the geometry might be out after removing/dismantling steering/suspension components.

As for the original noise, it was probably mentioned in your previous thread which i posted in but it could be anti roll bar, anti roll bar drop links, gearbox mount etc. You would however think a garage would pick up on this if they were faulty.

Yes you would think so, especially 2 different garages and the fact that at both places i have questioned whether it could be any of the things listed (farb, drop links etc) and after inspection they have ruled them out....... I'm going to pop into the garage after work and tell them whats going on, as i do not think these are just vibrations..... on some occasions it litterally sounds as though something is about to fall off (when turning over rough ground, drain covers etc) also just sitting at a stand still and turn the wheels to full lock, there are now some faint rattling sounds and squeaks....... It just seems that everytime i take it in it comes back worse!

Maybe your right though, and the cupra bushes are the cause......... i never expected it to be this bad though! i expected some extra road noise and maybe some extra vibration when pulling away or at low revs etc...... not this! :(

With a lot of Vrs's, When they have had a trip to a garage & have been suspended on a lift, Especially a Four point one which lets the suspension/wheels drop to there furthest point, They always seem to squeak & squark terrible, This is due to the rubber bushes drying out & the suspension travelling further than it ever has for months.

Try some silicone oil/lubricant & liberally spray around all rubber bushes front & rear & see if that helps, DOn't forget to give the suspension a work out immediately after to help distribute Etc.

Cheers

Dean

I'm wondering if the steering is going heavy close to full lock, has the camber angle been screwed up. The bushes have to be aligned with the console, so that the hex end of the wishbone has a proper 'unloaded' position. This should be a straight forward enough job, for any decent garage to carry out.

I'm wondering if the steering is going heavy close to full lock, has the camber angle been screwed up. The bushes have to be aligned with the console, so that the hex end of the wishbone has a proper 'unloaded' position. This should be a straight forward enough job, for any decent garage to carry out.

Unloaded or loaded?

I dropped the car into the garage this afternoon, and quoted what you said (or maybe i miss quoted?) The chap there said that you should always refit the the wishbone into the bush whilst under load - rather than unloaded. He says bushes should always be fitted this way, or have i completely mis-understood what you are saying??

If he's completely wrong please let me know, as i will need to find myself another garage pronto!

Cheers

Steve

Unloaded or loaded?

I dropped the car into the garage this afternoon, and quoted what you said (or maybe i miss quoted?) The chap there said that you should always refit the the wishbone into the bush whilst under load - rather than unloaded. He says bushes should always be fitted this way, or have i completely mis-understood what you are saying??

If he's completely wrong please let me know, as i will need to find myself another garage pronto!

Cheers

Steve

There is a reference mark on the console housing, and another on the bush outer sleeve. These should be aligned as the new bush is being pressed into the console. This ensures that the wishbone imparts minimal twisting of the bush when the weight of the car is on it's wheels and stationary (neutral suspension state.) That means, that as the suspension rises and falls due to road surface, the bush has maximum deflection in each direction. If the bush is fitted incorrectly, the bush will be loaded by the weight of the car, resulting in early bush failure.

Kind of hard to explain, but Skoda and Haynes manuals have clear pictures of how the bush must be fitted. The bush sort of acts like a rubber bearing, allowing up and down wishbone travel, and some fore and aft movement under acceleration and braking.

Cupra bushes give a slightly harsher ride, but last a lot longer.

The car went back in Thurs, picked it up Friday. It's sounding much better, all the knocking sounds that had appeared have now gone since going back in. However, the steering still goes heavy on occasion, just before it hits full lock. When i picked the car up, they said they had pushed the wishbone further into the bush - originally they put it in so the it fitted in flush with the back. This time they pushed it in slightly further so the hexagonal bit protrudes slightly. This seems to have got rid of near enough all the noises, bar the original knock it went in for and the heavy steering......

Here's a photo of one of the bushes (o/s) - does it all look normal? does it need to go in further still or is this about right?

Edited 28 February, 200917 yr by steve75

If they have been messing about with wishbone placement, then it is likely they do not understand the geometry of the suspension. Moving the wishbone forwards or backwards alters the KPI (King Pin Inclination). The wishbone geometry is normally Dependant on the front bush and associated bolt.

My advice would be to have the car checked by a specialist, and have all of the suspension angles checked. Minimum you need to have checked. Are KPI, Camber, Castor, Tracking (Toe In/Out), and 4 wheel alignment to check the front wheels are in line with the read wheels.

Very hard to comment on the photograph, as I have only ever used the standard OEM Voided bushes.

The only thing I can now think of, regarding the heavy steering close to full lock, is the suspension is offering more resistance than normal.

I will plow through my Skoda manuals, and see if anything else springs to mind. (No pun intended.)

the knocking could be the anti-roll bar droplinks giving out, mine were knocking for ages before i finally got fed up with it and changed them, they didn't look bad either but the ball joints on both ends of the drop link were shot

If they have been messing about with wishbone placement, then it is likely they do not understand the geometry of the suspension. Moving the wishbone forwards or backwards alters the KPI (King Pin Inclination). The wishbone geometry is normally Dependant on the front bush and associated bolt.

they aren't adjustable on a fabia, the ball joint is in a fixed position, he dampers are in a fixed position, the track control arms are in a fixed position, the only thing that can be adjusted is the position of the subframe in relation to the chassis, but there is very little 'play' at all really and it's only for fine tuning it(the holes in the consoles are elongated slightly)

If they have been messing about with wishbone placement, then it is likely they do not understand the geometry of the suspension. Moving the wishbone forwards or backwards alters the KPI (King Pin Inclination). The wishbone geometry is normally Dependant on the front bush and associated bolt.

My advice would be to have the car checked by a specialist, and have all of the suspension angles checked. Minimum you need to have checked. Are KPI, Camber, Castor, Tracking (Toe In/Out), and 4 wheel alignment to check the front wheels are in line with the read wheels.

Very hard to comment on the photograph, as I have only ever used the standard OEM Voided bushes.

The only thing I can now think of, regarding the heavy steering close to full lock, is the suspension is offering more resistance than normal.

I will plow through my Skoda manuals, and see if anything else springs to mind. (No pun intended.)

Yes, they commented that with the standard bush there are markers to help with positioning the wishbone & bush, where as the cupra bush didn't have anything to help them. So, they just put in so it fitted flush with the rear of the bush.

I think what i will do then is find somewhere to get a proper alignment done, and see what the results of that are. Other than that, i think my best bet might be to make a very long trip up to Lummox and see if he can help me sort this mess out! I just don't seem to able to find a garage round here that are capable of doing anything that is slightly out of the ordinary (and in some cases, THE ordinary)

I've tried explaining some of the things you have mentioned to the mechanics, but they don't particulary care for me telling them their doing it wrong and try to generally talk over me if i remotely sound like i know something........

I very much appreciate the help moggy, shame your so far away........ If you think of anything else or stumble on anything in your manuals, please do let me know.

the knocking could be the anti-roll bar droplinks giving out, mine were knocking for ages before i finally got fed up with it and changed them, they didn't look bad either but the ball joints on both ends of the drop link were shot

Yes, i think i will probably get these changed just to rule it out, bothe garages i've been to so far have ruled them out saying they look fine, but as you said, yours looked fine too........ I'll get it done if only to rule it out .

Cheers

Steve

my droplinks looked fine and there was no discernable play when moving them by hand, but new ones stopped the knocking, oh the knocking..................

the drop links are about £15 each iirc