Can you modify a newer engine to fit an estelle?

[alfcapone]

What engines can i use?

How much can i reuse?

I really only want to do as little as possible, best scenario is only to move over the exterior parts for fuel and exhaust and so on

[Tenman]

mating them up to the gearbox will be the big issue... obviously be better getting an engine thats not a huge difference in size so you don't have to do things like cut up the bulkhead/firewall, apart from that, you'll prob. have to make engine mounts, and fabricate an exhaust/manifold, getting engine management sorted out is fun as well unless you know what your doing.

[KenONeill]

You'd need an adapter plate and new engine mounts and carb linkage, but a SAAB V4 would be different, and should be small enough; might even work out nicely on weight distribution since it'll be short for its capacity.

[hawkeracing]

You'd need an adapter plate and new engine mounts and carb linkage, but a SAAB V4 would be different, and should be small enough; might even work out nicely on weight distribution since it'll be short for its capacity.

and not much better than the old Skoda engine! If youre after big power then you need something modern and lightweight (so you dont upset the handling). I would go with a 1.8 k-series....but its not going to be straight forward. The only straightforward way is to fit a Skoda engine!

[Guest westallc]

but the 1.8 k-series is such a poor engine

[Tenman]

oh God yeah, Nissan engine is the way forward, CA18DET, or SR20DET, I beleive the toyota 4AGE's are OK too...

[rigsby]

How about a rotary out of an RX8

[hawkeracing]

but the 1.8 k-series is such a poor engine

No, it was poorly developed and is misunderstood. Most of the faults that caused head gasket failure have been identified and fixes are easily and cheaply available.....unfortunately they were not developed until long after a lot of people got fed up of the unreliability and moved on.

The engine itself is very light and can easily be made to put out good power. A 1.8 in near standard form with a few tweaks - the cat removed and a decent induction system will put out 140bhp.

[Guest westallc]

No, it was poorly developed and is misunderstood. Most of the faults that caused head gasket failure have been identified and fixes are easily and cheaply available.....unfortunately they were not developed until long after a lot of people got fed up of the unreliability and moved on.

The engine itself is very light and can easily be made to put out good power. A 1.8 in near standard form with a few tweaks - the cat removed and a decent induction system will put out 140bhp.

they are still poor even the new headgaskets are rubbish i have replaced a few in my time lol yes they are a nippy engine but fail alot. i have seen them running 200 bhp unless you get a good one ten expect hassle i changed the hg 3 times on the same car one was the new uprated shimmed gasket...

this is why k series engine in things like the elise are now toyota engines instead

dont get me wrong if you get a good one they are good fun

[alfcapone]

Well thanks for all the advise but im really looking for another skoda engine.

like a felicia or something. i want it to go thru the MOT.

I just blew my head gasket big time and im not really shure the engine is ok after that. The gasket was poor to beginn with but if i drowe carefully it was ok but then...

Im not shure a change of head gasket can fix it.

I just had to keep on going to get somewhere i could leave the car. damn the only time i did not keep an eye on the temp gauge...

[RSIMPS]

Watch the weight of the engine. I am not having a go at Ken, but the Ford v4 (saab engine) is too heavy. I rally Saabs and have done for years, they have good torque, but even with twin webers 1815cc and single port heads you will be lucky to get over 140 bhp. The inlet manifold for this set up will cost about £500-700 in the uk. The std item is not that great. The std Skoda engine is far better bhp/kg.

I would go for a modern all alloy 16v unit, you should get better performance and economy.

If you really want to be a nutter then have a look at the early super saloon Skodas. A couple where build from std shells with a few f5000 parts thrown in, including the v8 engine fitted the other way round. Most ended up as nothing more than a f5000 car with a fibre glass shell. There is a group trying to bring these back to the tracks.

[RSIMPS]

You can get about 140 bhp from a 1400 K series. The fav is the 16v Vauxhall with the rally lot, but the weight might be a problem, you will have to check. There are load of these around, plenty of parts and people to tune them. If you want to be silly (ps hewland box required) you can get over 180 bhp from a 1400cc if you have about £12 000 to spend.

Also have a look at the 106 pug engine, check its weight unless you want 911 handling.

[KenONeill]

Watch the weight of the engine. I am not having a go at Ken, but the Ford v4 (saab engine) is too heavy. I rally Saabs and have done for years, they have good torque, but even with twin webers 1815cc and single port heads you will be lucky to get over 140 bhp.

No probs mate; I was just looking for something that was short, different (so not Vw Type 1 to 4 with transaxle), and carbs and clockwork to minimise electronnicy type installation problems. The SAAB V4 sprang to mind because the OP is in Sweden, rather than because it's a great engine.

[Tenman]

felicia engine is the same apart from a couple of very minor differences like the dipstick location and will practically drop straight in. my Rapids running on a Felicia engine at the moment..

[RapidRonnie]

I wonder if a Fabia 1.4 MPI engine might fit as this was based on the old Skoda 1.3 but is torquier and smoother?

[alfcapone]

So can i reuse my original fuel and exhaust manifolds? and just fit them on an 1,3 felicia engine? ive got an 1,2 originally

[Tenman]

Think you'll need to get hold of a Rapid Manifold... Jorily do them...

[hawkeracing]

I had a 214bhp k-series in one of my old race cars...revved over 8000rpm and sounded like a motorbike. Brilliant engine and it never needed a headgasket in 3 years of getting thrashed because it had the right set up with the right head gasket and it never ran short of water. I also ran a 1400 with around 130bhp (RSIMPS....its possible to get 160bhp with the 1400 but it involves scalloping the liners to fit the VHPD head....now I'm talking geek talk!) and it never needed a head gasket...it did drop a valve though:mad:.

Back to the Skoda engine.....if you'd looked about 5 posts down you'd have seen my handily sut and pasted guide to fitting a Favorit engine. Here it is again -

Cut and pasted for you!!! -

Ive put an engine from a Favorit GLi into an Estelle 105.

You need to replace the following items on the Favorit engine with the Estelle version -

1. sump

2. oil pick up

3. water pump

4. crank pulley

5. alternator and mounting brackets

6. clutch

7. engine mounts

Unless youve got a carb Favorit with points ignition, you also need to change the distributor (I opted for a full Favorit electronic system from Jorily) and put the Estelle fuel pump onto the Favorit (you need to change over the studs as the ones on the Favorit engine will be too short)

You also need to swap the spigot washer thingumy at the clutch end of the crank for the bearing on the Estelle engine (or buy a new sealed 6202 bearing....less than a £10 so worth it!)

Last but not least, you need to tap off the ring gear on the outside of the Estelle flywheel and put it onto the Favorit flywheel by heating the Favorit wheel up in the oven first (having already removed the Favorit ring gear of course!!) and then tapping on the Estelle version.

You will also need to source an inlet and exhaust manifold.....Jorily sells both new but they cost. Ive opted for the good old banana manifold and Weber DCOE.I believe the Favorit exhuast manifold can be made to fit and if you can find a carb Favorit the manifold from that will also work but it'll sit at a wierd angle.

I think thats everything, although a couple of the studs on the bellhousing needed moving to different holes ......I reckon I could do the whole job in about 5 hours now if I had all the parts and tools to hand

For the person who asked about the Fabia engine (and some later Felicia engines)....they do not have the crank machined to take the clutch bearing that the Estelle needs, so you'd need to get the crank out and have it machined. The Favorit engine already has the space which is filled with a washer so its straight forward.

Edited 10 March, 2009 by hawkeracing

[Guest westallc]

I had a 214bhp k-series in one of my old race cars...revved over 8000rpm and sounded like a motorbike.

bet that was fun:thumbup:

what was the power to weight ratio must have been huge

[hawkeracing]

Had it in a Metro to start with, but the handling was so bad (because the idiot that had built the car had f!*ked about with the suspension and brakes so much) that it was no use. I then built a Rover 200 for the engine and it worked rather well.....890kgs and 214 bhp was good. Not as good as the current toy - 180bhp in 370kgs:thumbup:

[surprising_skod]

So can i reuse my original fuel and exhaust manifolds? and just fit them on an 1,3 felicia engine? ive got an 1,2 originally

the 1.3 is an 8-port head, and the 1.2 is a 5-port head, so this is why you need ones from a 136 rapid engine so that they sit at the correct angle otherwise your fuel and exhaust will not flow right.

[alfcapone]

Thanks for all the input!

1, a Favorit is eaven less avaliable than an Estelle i Sweden so that engine is not an option

2, it looks like its easier/cheeper to repair or replace the Estelle engine.

By the way, in the good ol days when they raced with the Saab 96 v4 at Ralleycross and at Nurnburgring and they pur fuel injection and turbo on it and pushed it to 300+hp

[RSIMPS]

Carnt you get a 136 engine at all over there? I am sure someone can ship you one over. What about in Denmark?

I have seen a couple of those rallycross cars (or copies), It gets over the fact that the engine is very port restricted.

[alfcapone]

136 is that the one in late rapids?

maybe if i get my hands on a whole car, i know where one stands...

The thing is this, since they flipped twice on television in Sweden in the -70:es the market died for skodas and only about 200-300/year where sold by a small importer.

And i think it was onlu estelles and rapids, No Forman at all where imported i think. But then the Felicia came in 1995 with the help from VW and there where skodas everywhere ;-)

That why my question, there isnt parts everywhere as you can understand.

[KenONeill]

136 in some very late Rapids and Estelles.