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Found out why my bass isn't "that" impressive.

devonutopia
in Audio, Electronics and Security

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Basically I am using a sh!te amplifier! I paid a lot of money for the Kenwood "1000w" (my ar5e!) amplifier, and it turns out my subs basically are not being given the treatment they deserve! :( What a waste of cash this Kenwood was! :mad:

After lovely MTX USA sent me a pdf "manual" on my subs I've realised they're a 250W RMS speaker, 500W peak. The problem is the Kenwood is a two channel one, but on two channels its only putting out 90W RMS. I've learned something about "clipping" which means the amplifier can't cope with the demands being placed on it - it distorts the signal which in turn affects the signal going to the subs, causing distortion at higher volumes. I don't know if anyone heard them going at TRAX but they're not up to my standards, yet.

So, the Kenwood is going, maybe. And incoming shortly will be TWO Rockford mono amplifiers, one for each sub. :D Each amp is capable of putting out close to 300W RMS, which will be much more suitable than just a mere 90W. I'm hoping clipping will disappear, and being Rockford, general music quality will improve. :D Also, I believe there's gonna be a much higher demand placed on the wiring, so I've decided to keep my 4AWG power cable, and will be installing it soon. The upside of this means I have to take a bigger drill bit to my bulkhead to slightly expand the existing hole I drilled for my 8awg. :thumbup:

So "hopefully" in about a month's time, when my moving house has all settled down, I'll be running THREE amplifiers in my boot... :cool: :speaker:

I got one question though for anyone in the know. Use the rockford punch 60.2 for the door speakers, or the Kenwood. The Rockford is technically less powerful but with all old skool things, the rating is very under-estimated. ;)

Jason, I'd use the rockford for the comps.

It's more important to have low, clean power going to comps. You don't need "megawatts" of power. It'll just sound cack ;)

My sinfoni is only rated at less than 90W rms per channel, but it's a "conservative" figure and oozes finesse and quality.

You sure you want those two rockford amps for your subs? You're gonna drown the detail of your comps with oodles of phat wickeed pumpin' bass :rofl: (says the man who's just "upgraded" his sub amp!) ;)

Jason, What Rockford Fosgate amps you getting? I'm only saying this as I think you should really consider running your two subs in 2ohms. Meaning run your 2 subs off the same channel of the amp. Mono block amps are stable at 2ohm (and some times 1ohm and lower) and usualy give twice as much power at 2ohms then 4ohms.

Forgot to add. Put the kenwood on ebay :D

  • Author

Rockfords are "power 200.1" s I think. Will report more when I get there. ;)

Hope the amp clipping hasn't fryed your sub coils, could be expensive.

hmmmmmm, rockford, love the stuff.

i have a pair of ickle rockford 10's in the boot, 250w or 300w rms a piece i think running off of a directed amp @ 2ohm at the mo as the rockford i had wasn't really big enough. got it for sale if anyone wants it?? ;) its an RF power 200 a1, great amp just slightly under powered for my subs, any offers? (sorry to hijack jas)

  • Author

How much Bengie, out of curiosity - I think its two of those that I'm getting (grey in colour?) Using two of those Rockfords should be good for the subs.

Dave - I'm hoping the clipping hasn't done any damage, because by the time I get to high volumes, the pain of listening to the distortion makes me turn the vol down, thereby killing the clipping. Should be sorted soon though. :D

Dave - I'm hoping the clipping hasn't done any damage, because by the time I get to high volumes, the pain of listening to the distortion makes me turn the vol down, thereby killing the clipping. Should be sorted soon though. :D

Sounds like you should be OK then. :thumbup: Most people don't seem to realise you 'blow' speakers much more frequently by 'under driving' them than 'over driving'.

  • Author
Sounds like you should be OK then. :thumbup: Most people don't seem to realise you 'blow' speakers much more frequently by 'under driving' them than 'over driving'.

:nod: I didn't know until I started getting onto the Talkaudio forums. :thumbup:

:nod: I didn't know until I started getting onto the Talkaudio forums. :thumbup:

Pretty sure I mentioned it when you were asking for advice on the first Rockford amp... :P

Rob.

Just a quicky but depending on the kenwood amp (crossovers etc) you could use that 90w rms per channel amp to put some clean sounds through your front comps, will then sound far sweeter than if you have them hooked up straight to your HU. Just food for thought :D

Lee

  • Author

Its a toss-up between the punch 60.2 or the Kenwood to power the comps. The Rockford is probably better "quality" than the Kenwood so I'd rather use it than the Kenwood for this reason alone - however the Kenwood "should" handle better power, plus it has flashy little neon bit on the front which you can see through the perspex screen in my false floor! :rofl: (big factor, ya know ;))

edit: comps already have crossovers.... taking 1/3 of my front door pcoket space... Too big to go behind the door cards. :rolleyes: I think the word "phat" is a suitable description.

I'm gonna be struggling for boot space though - because three amps on one furby boot floor is gonna be a tight squeeze. :D

IMO i think rather then running a 3 amp system you be best going for a class d mono block...still run a two amp system you will find this will sound even better... the reason are efficency will be so much better from a class d, minimal current draw problems, or volateg drop problems in a two amp system, subs will be working in harmony with each other as the amp will move the subs as the same time, both subs will see the same power, basically in a three amp system like you are surgesting the power going to each sub could be considrable less, two indvidual amps are never going hit at the same time...space in a furby is limited.. and basically all the opposite of what was said above... in fact there are very little PROs about having a 3 amp system..

oh and rember to earth it safely :rofl::thumbup:

Joel

If its a Mono you want then Directed get a very good write up, especially on the forums of car audio direct, and 1 ohm stable - 1100D which can also be piggy backed :D

  • Author

Joel - I think I need more info about this monoblock thingy - I was told that these two amps would be fine - putting a lot more quality juice in the direction of the speakers. You think they'd not run at the same time, given the same inputs/outputs? I suppose there's a risk of that. The thing is my budget is well tight and can't afford anything that's getting toward the pro-stuff. I basically thought running two 200.1s would be good for the subs leaving a n other to power the comps.

The fact my Kenwood has only one preout is equally annoying as I'll be splitting and daisy chaining all around my boot! :rofl:

directed are good but usally come with a heavy price tag..could aso go for rockford mono block, MTX to match the subs, kicker theres loads out there now..dosnt have to be mono block could be abridgeable two channel amp..usally the cheaper way of getting good bass power..

whats the budget...and i'll have a look around and make a few surgestions..also what is the ohm of the subs?..i assume there single voice coil?

will look on ebay for you usally a good place to pick up lots of qulity power for less

wots the spec on the RFs you are looking at? i.e

1x100wrms @ 13.8V into 4ohms

1x200wrms @ 13.8V into 2ohms

1x350wrms @ 13.8V into 1ohm

etc . . .

I am with the rest here in saying you will get more power into the subs running one RF into 2ohms (2, 4 ohm subs in parellel) then you would running 2 amps into 4ohms (one sub on each amp). . . A much better solution.

Are your subs dual voice coil? What impedence are they? I'm guessing they are 4 ohm single voice coil.

You can then use the 60.2 (is these 2x60wrms @ 4 ohms?)for the fronts although this may be underpowering the 5.1 perfects you have got . . . especially wrt the amount of bass you are running.

I also agree with Joel that unless you have bought the RFs already, look at a calss D amp for your subs, put less drain on your leccy system for the same power output . . .

  • Author

Basically I've been assured these 200.1s will put up to 300W RMS into my subs - And thats at 4ohm as well - they're even better at 2 ohm apparently.

The subs are 4ohm single voice coil, yes. 250W RMS, 500W peak - The kenwood simply isn't good enough for the job. :(

I've got a Alpine M500 mono block. Birth Cert says just over 550rms at 2ohms. The new one M501 has even more power. You could also try looking at a Genesis Mono block. Think that puts out around 500rms at 2 ohms. Much better idea to use one amp to power both subs instead ot 2 I reckon.

Mate, I would seriously check the spec of the rockford gear. As I can see:

Rockford Fosgate Power 200.1:

Power Amplifier 200.1

Trans-ana sound quality

NOMAD protection circuitry

Variable 24dB crossover

Variable remote Punch Bass

High level inputs

1 Channel

#2 Heatsink

RMS Power 4ohms 100x1

RMS Power 2ohms 200x1

Not enough for your applicaiton. I don`t care what people say about "being underrated". If the numbers aren't close in the first place, you gotta think how far they can be stretched . . . .

Whats the specs on your kenwood, and the part number purlease, may be able to dish some dirt on that too ;)

Mate' date=' I would seriously check the spec of the rockford gear. As I can see:

Rockford Fosgate Power 200.1:

Power Amplifier 200.1

Trans-ana sound quality

NOMAD protection circuitry

Variable 24dB crossover

Variable remote Punch Bass

High level inputs

1 Channel

#2 Heatsink

RMS Power 4ohms 100x1

RMS Power 2ohms 200x1

Not enough for your applicaiton. I don`t care what people say about "being underrated". If the numbers aren't close in the first place, you gotta think how far they can be stretched . . . .

Whats the specs on your kenwood, and the part number purlease, may be able to dish some dirt on that too ;)[/quote']

from what i have read those RF amps will only give you 10watts more then the kenny is at the mo...assuming the kenny is running at 4 ohms to show the subs 90watts :rolleyes:

Joel

need details on the kenny, I don't think you are running it right, get a model number on here and we can see.

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