whats your virdict on the top gear test where they tunned up the renault people carrier, spent thousands on suspention, brakes, tunning and didnt make a scrap of difference on the time round the track.they where ainimg to knock 10 secs of the standard time but only managed about two. the conclution was, tunning, a complete waste of time.:confused:

If you look at the time that they put on the lap board at the end of the program they managed to knock almost 10 seconds off the original time. They ended up a fraction of a second slower than a Focus ST.

The tuning being a waste of time related to them spending almost £3k on tyres and brakes which made them slower. Once they'd sorted the engine and suspension this took over 6 seconds off the time.

Price per hp increase, a remap is the cheapest/most powerful tune you can do to a forced air induction car (turbo/supercharged). Forget about a naturally aspired engine though - more power = more fuel, the only way to add more fuel is to also add more air. How do you add more air by chipping a n/a engine?

I've had every flavour of VAG diesels and know how they all perform before and after a remap. Just remember that most of what comes out of Clarkson's mouth is for effect and not for informed journalism.

It was the usual Top Gear ********, frankly.

Hmm...I spent a lot less on tuning my diesel Astra, and it went faster and handled better than a VXR.

150hp 1.9CDti remapped to 200hp/310-lb-ft - £200.

Bilstein B12 suspension kit - £490

Whiteline Rear ARB - £120

VXR brakes - £450

0-60 in 6, clocked at 141mph GPS. It did corners too.

Which VXR?

This the one where they gave it a service which added around 40bhp lol but what they didnt show you is that while it was at TOTD getting the new suspension fitted etc they also put the 3.0 V6 engine in to...

This the one where they gave it a service which added around 40bhp lol but what they didnt show you is that while it was at TOTD getting the new suspension fitted etc they also put the 3.0 V6 engine in to...

Did it not have the V6 to begin with (I'm sure the 'before' runs sounded very V6ish...), or was it smoke and mirrors?

I've just been reading an article where a recognised tuner had found 2s in a 90s lap on a Subaru Imprezza by changing the wheels, tyres and brakes, and nothing else!

Didnt see the repeat so memory is a bit vague. =-(

its the V6 as standard that was in the clio and laguna V6's which does have soem tunning potential without going forced induction.

tbh they should of put sensible brake upgrade, suspension, ARBs, breath on the engine which would take about 7k to be done well and the engine would be putting about 250-300bhp then and a weight loss programme and they could of made a lot of time imo.

I know the episode well and they said that they could do a massive weight loss programme but they then decided against it based on the fact that the point of the show was to see if they could make any car into an evo equivalent.

The evo has carpets, sound deadening, electric windows etc. so if they ripped all that out they would fail.

They only got away with pulling the seats out because they put 4 seats back in.

I agree that they could have done better but that wasn't the point, on an earlier episode of TG they invited people with their own tuned cars to come along to the track "to illustrate that the manufacturers know best and there is no point in aftermarket tuning" and the home tuners kicked ***.

In the "cocking around" sections of the show the scenarios are always set up so that the TG team fail, that's where the comedy lies.

If they wanted to do it properly they would have chosen an equivalent saloon car like, for example, a vRS MK1 Octy.

then they would have hammered the evo's time well within their 10K budget.

They could have even bought a tired second hand evo and made it faster than it's new brother and kept to the budget.

But doing things properly isn't entertaining.

As for Clarkson not knowing what torque is, that is an on screen affectation. He is a motoring journalist with decades of experience, he really knows his stuff.

As for Clarkson not knowing what torque is, that is an on screen affectation. He is a motoring journalist with decades of experience, he really knows his stuff.

And? I've seen the same journalist (not Clarkson) complain about "over-intrusive ABS" in one piece, and talk about "what a brilliant safety device ESP is" in another. Being a muttering rotter requires a journalism qualification, but no technical or road safety knowledge.

Also good point.

Perhaps I shouldn't have tried to defend him by saying he is an experienced journalist.

That is like saying someone will make a good gynaecologist because they have years of experience as a rapist.

All I can say is that for the tiny moment that I got to talk to him I thought he was knowledgeable and charismatic.

I like him and I like the cars on their list of cars they all like (Subaru Forrester, Mondeo and Avantime), actually my dad had an Avantime and a Vel Satis, also a Citroen BX, a DX, an SD1 and a load of other bizzare but great pieces of mad design.

I suppose there will always be a load of people who hate TG but when Clarkson cried after the 24hr race and there was a shot of Hammond and May smiling, I just thought "what a bunch of genuinely brilliant people".

I suppose there will always be a load of people who hate TG but when Clarkson cried after the 24hr race and there was a shot of Hammond and May smiling, I just thought "what a bunch of genuinely brilliant people".

I still say that was the best episode of TG ever, and as said it showed them as a really good bunch of lads.

Clarkson is a nice guy from my experience until it comes to business (but then what good business people are). He may not be the most knowledgeable journo but by now he will understand cars pretty well and can offer some good reviews, most TG reviews are more about the thrill of driving and entertaining the public than wether they are good cars or not but looking at some of the sensible car walls and they do make sense and review properly.

it did annoy me that they chose a silly car to mod and would of been much more interesting to of seen them mod imo something much more challenging, like a supra and getting that to match a 360modena laptime or something.

To clarify, I've had too much experience of people ascribing a degree of knowledge of a subject that they frankly don't have to journalists!

I also think Jezza is a good media personality (and probably nice guy socially as long as you don't fundamentally disagree with him), but that doesn't mean I'd take (or ask) car advice from him. In fact, the only one of the TG team I'd take buying advice from is Captain Slow!

I know the episode well and they said that they could do a massive weight loss programme but they then decided against it based on the fact that the point of the show was to see if they could make any car into an evo equivalent.

The evo has carpets, sound deadening, electric windows etc. so if they ripped all that out they would fail.

They only got away with pulling the seats out because they put 4 seats back in.

I agree that they could have done better but that wasn't the point, on an earlier episode of TG they invited people with their own tuned cars to come along to the track "to illustrate that the manufacturers know best and there is no point in aftermarket tuning" and the home tuners kicked ***.

In the "cocking around" sections of the show the scenarios are always set up so that the TG team fail, that's where the comedy lies.

If they wanted to do it properly they would have chosen an equivalent saloon car like, for example, a vRS MK1 Octy.

then they would have hammered the evo's time well within their 10K budget.

They could have even bought a tired second hand evo and made it faster than it's new brother and kept to the budget.

But doing things properly isn't entertaining.

As for Clarkson not knowing what torque is, that is an on screen affectation. He is a motoring journalist with decades of experience, he really knows his stuff.

The aim was to make a "normal" car as fast as an evo or similar not make an old evo beat its newer sibling on the track.

If they went for a highly powerful saloon car or hot hatch type like the vRS then they don't need to do much to it.

It did show that theres a lot more to "tuning" than adding more engine power. A powerful engine is nothing if it the support components can't handle it.

It's like sticking a fast CPU in a really cheap low spec motherboard and expecting it to perform the same as a high performance gaming PC with all the trimmings.

And? I've seen the same journalist (not Clarkson) complain about "over-intrusive ABS" in one piece, and talk about "what a brilliant safety device ESP is" in another.

I don't feel those need to be mutually exclusive, as it all depends on the review. A piece about a hardcore track focused hatch might attract the former criticism, but in the case of a rear wheel drive family saloon the latter comment could be appropriate.

As for the Top Gear piece - I though it was hugely entertaining, but I would have loved to have seen them really go for it and attack the stuff that would have made the difference. I can see how they'd want to poke fun at the pointless (and mostly visual) modding that goes on while the genuinely clever stuff is all behind the scenes, but it would have been a an even better segment if they'd approached it as a genuine tuning specialist would.

The worst thing about it was that as a huge fan of the Avantime, I'm now morbidly fascinated to see how fast one could be persuaded to go

even a nos kit would make it go round the track quicker but it was more entertaining how they did it. i suppose it was a dig at ott body kits and spoilers.

would of been good if theyd done like a 1.2 corsa do do the usual chavvy mods to see how much they slowed the car with cheap over sized alloys and cheap lowering springs.

Strange that this also came from the guy who said 'Don't bother with a Mini Cooper - get a One and remap it to Cooper power...'

But it's a big :+1: for TG being entertainment first and consumer advice second!