Flat Battery

[Knowsley]

I've had a look through old posts, but have been unable to find any clues to my problem so here goes! I bought my Superb 05 Elegance tdi in January with 36k on the clock. About a month or so ago I found the battery was completely flat - no juice whatsoever - I had to unlock the car with the key. I got a one year Skoda warranty when I bought it so called out the breakdown people, and the car started fine on jump leads. There was no clue as to why the battery was flat, but the battery wouldn't hold a charge, so it was concluded that the fault was the battery itself so I bought a new one. All seemed fine then the same thing happened a couple of weeks later, ie completely and utterly flat. I made sure that eg no interior lights were staying on after the car was locked, but after a run the battery was fine so no apparent problems with the alternator. It has now happened for a third time. Any ideas as to what the problem may be and will diagnostics machines help :confused:

[RADIOTWO]

If you say the alternator is ok, what are the readings ?

Radiotwo

Edited 13 July, 2009 by DGW
Quote deleted. Members don't need to read the previous post again!

[Supurbia]

You need to get a test meter on it when it's running mate, this will show if the alternator is charging under load etc.

Another check you can do is to look at the battery leads, under the sheathing is there any black muck etc, and also if the terminals are getting really hot you might have a breakdown in the cabling and this is why the charge isn't happening.

[Knowsley]

I took the car to HL Austin in Southfields on Friday. They discovered that the nearside rear carpet was wet causing the wiring to short out, but that there was no apparent leaks that had caused it. I got HL Austin to carry out the pollen filter housing seal repair very shortly after buying the car in January (from ALS Autos in Ely) as I wanted to avoid this very problem. So, my wallet is £391 lighter (not covered by the Skoda warranty) and I have no confidence that the same thing isn't going to happen again, as they say that there was no obvious sign of a leak. Anyone else had this happen to them?

[Supurbia]

Nope but I garage mine and check the scuttle a lot, I'm thinking you might be able to claim some of that money back, how old is the car? I'm sure because it's a design fault they do a goodwill on it if you ask, if they give it the old there was nothing wrong with it sir routine, ask why they agreed to seal the filter then if it didn't come in through there, which we all know it did unless you left the back window open in the monsoon season.

[Knowsley]

Nope but I garage mine and check the scuttle a lot, I'm thinking you might be able to claim some of that money back, how old is the car? I'm sure because it's a design fault they do a goodwill on it if you ask, if they give it the old there was nothing wrong with it sir routine, ask why they agreed to seal the filter then if it didn't come in through there, which we all know it did unless you left the back window open in the monsoon season.

I have written a letter to the previous owner asking whether there may have been problems with wet carpets whilst he owned the car - maybe the fault has taken a while to develop. I had understood though that the previous owner normally garaged the car. The car is an 05 and was clearly well cared for. I joined this forum before I actually bought the car, so was aware of the potential problem and feel quite aggrieved that I have still become a victim of this design fault despite taking steps to ensure that it didn't happen to me! The cause of the problem does seem inconclusive, but I think it probably is down to the pollen filter issue, but it can't be since I've owned it. The unfortunate thing is that the cause at the moment at least is inconclusive, so difficult to claim on the warranty at least on the evidence so far.

[barrabbas]

does your car have a solar sunroof? have heard that they drain the battery when the car's parked up.

[Knowsley]

It is an Elegance model, and it does have a sunroof - how would I be able to tell if it's a solar one? I thought the solar aspect activated some cooling fans, although I've not been aware of anything like this working when I've unlocked the car.

Edited 13 July, 2009 by DGW
Quote deleted. Members don't need to read the previous post again!

[sidewaze samm]

It is an Elegance model, and it does have a sunroof - how would I be able to tell if it's a solar one? I thought the solar aspect activated some cooling fans, although I've not been aware of anything like this working when I've unlocked the car.

easiest way - a solar sunroof looks like a glass roof from outside, but a solid steel roof from inside

[Custard Tractor]

Sidewaze,

I was reporting similar problems with my 56 Elegance in Feb - no solar sunroof. Skoda Assist checked the battery and the alternator and we took it to ALS in Ely to see if the problem could be identified. At best, there was a vague suspicion of a possible problem with the front seats and it was suggested that we turn off the memory function. ALS have advised that in the event of another completely flat battery, that we have it trailored to them so that they can be confident that they have as good a look at the fault messages as they might. I am not convinced about the seats and they continue to operate as designed. We have had no similar problems since Feb. I suspect that a heated screen (or seat?) turned itself on when garaged and this led to the discharge - I have actually seen this happen to a parked, locked vehicle many years ago (BL). Na water ingress on our vehicle to date, which incidentally we bought from HL Austin 22 months ago. We have been pleased with both these Dealers. Good luck with your quest.

[rotodiesel]

I've never had any problems with a flat battery with my poverty spec Superb, but being in the automotive electronics industry, I ran a check on it. When everything is locked down and the alarm is set, the CCM goes into "sleep" mode and the drain is minimal (but still there). If you leave the car unlocked, the drain is significantly higher.

I frequently leave my car at work in secure storage, and the Establishment rule is that vehicles have to be unlocked. If I'm leaving it for more than a day or two, I leave it fully locked with the key in the door.

The electrical system on the B5.5 is pretty flakey, even without added water. I'm very glad I bought the base model.

rotodiesel.

[Knowsley]

easiest way - a solar sunroof looks like a glass roof from outside, but a solid steel roof from inside

Mine isn't a solar sunroof. I have also heard from the previous owner who didn't experience any problems. He also confirmed that the car was almost always garaged. However, he traded the car in in October, and I didn't buy it until January, so maybe something happened in those few months - who knows. It's all a bit of a mystery. The strange thing is that all I experienced was the flat battery issue, and the wet area was the nearside rear and not the nearside front, which, from what I've read is where the water normally collects.

[johannapam1]

I have read in a post somewhere that the water can move to the back as the floor pan angles down towards the back?

[Chris Dut]

Has it had a replacement windscreen at any time?

usual suspects on the vw passat are either pollen filter housing or poorly sealed windscreens

HTH

[Knowsley]

I don't believe it has, but will have a close look.

Edited 13 July, 2009 by DGW
Redundant quote deleted.

[freeatlast]

does your car have a solar sunroof? have heard that they drain the battery when the car's parked up.

sorry to resurrect an old thread - but my Superb has a solar sunroof and the fan seems to run even once the engine is switched off (I noticed it twice since picking it up this week).

Is this normal?

If we continue to have nice weather will i need to recharge the batteries?

Sorry to ask a stupid question!

[sidewaze samm]

sorry to resurrect an old thread - but my Superb has a solar sunroof and the fan seems to run even once the engine is switched off (I noticed it twice since picking it up this week).

which fan are you referring to?

[freeatlast]

It seems like the air con - it seems to run sometimes after i've stopped and removed the ignition key. I sat in the car the other day and it must have been running 20 mins after the engine was turned off and the air con was switched off.

The other morning when i got into the car it was cooler than outside and the air con seemed to have been running?

So i guess that when i read this thread and saw the posts about the solar sunroof i thought i would ask the question!

Edit:- I've just found a thread about it and now realise that it is the solar roof that powers the fans when the temp exceeds 25C!

[Railroad]

If the battery is going flat overnight or over a period of time then something is being left switched on. it's as simple as that. The problem is though it might not be anything that you know about. You can check for a battery drain with an ammeter. The best way to do it is to use some long leads so that you can close the bonnet with your meter on the floor.

Select the 10A DC setting on the meter and place the probes into the Amps socket. Close all the doors and remove the ignition key. Loosen the battery earth cable (but do not remove it yet) and clip the red probe to the negative battery clamp. The idea is not to break the circuit at any time. Place your black probe on the negative battery post and then remove the battery clamp from the post. Juggle it around so you can work hands free, but try not to break the circuit. Whatever the ammeter now reads is a battery drain. Close the bonnet and lock the car. Just bear in mind that the central locking solenoids will all pull a fair amount of current as they operate, and so you will see an initial rise, but hopefully not more than 10 amps else it may blow your meter fuse. Leave the meter connected and observe the reading from time to time.

Battery discharge rates are measured in amp/hours. A 50Ah battery can have 50 amps drawn off for 1 hour, or 1 amp drawn off for 50 hours, or multiples thereof. This is of course assuming the battery is in top condition and fully charged to start with. When the car is fully shut down the current draw should be less than 0.1A. This will be the clock, radio presets, ECUs and so on. Whatever the reading is on yours you can calculate how long it will take to go flat. Also bear in mind that the battery doesn't need to be fully flat to prevent the engine from starting.

If you have an unacceptable drain (which you will almost certainly have) you will need to go about finding it. This can be tricky on modern cars where everything is controlled by modules, but essentially you need to isolate one circuit at a time by pulling fuses until the ammeter reading drops. When it does you know which circuit the drain is on.

The good news is that most battery drains are caused by something very simple, and so don't overlook the obvious.......

[bryanp]

If the battery is going flat overnight or over a period of time then something is being left switched on. it's as simple as that. The problem is though it might not be anything that you know about. You can check for a battery drain with an ammeter. The best way to do it is to use some long leads so that you can close the bonnet with your meter on the floor.

Select the 10A DC setting on the meter and place the probes into the Amps socket. Close all the doors and remove the ignition key. Loosen the battery earth cable (but do not remove it yet) and clip the red probe to the negative battery clamp. The idea is not to break the circuit at any time. Place your black probe on the negative battery post and then remove the battery clamp from the post. Juggle it around so you can work hands free, but try not to break the circuit. Whatever the ammeter now reads is a battery drain. Close the bonnet and lock the car. Just bear in mind that the central locking solenoids will all pull a fair amount of current as they operate, and so you will see an initial rise, but hopefully not more than 10 amps else it may blow your meter fuse. Leave the meter connected and observe the reading from time to time.

Battery discharge rates are measured in amp/hours. A 50Ah battery can have 50 amps drawn off for 1 hour, or 1 amp drawn off for 50 hours, or multiples thereof. This is of course assuming the battery is in top condition and fully charged to start with. When the car is fully shut down the current draw should be less than 0.1A. This will be the clock, radio presets, ECUs and so on. Whatever the reading is on yours you can calculate how long it will take to go flat. Also bear in mind that the battery doesn't need to be fully flat to prevent the engine from starting.

If you have an unacceptable drain (which you will almost certainly have) you will need to go about finding it. This can be tricky on modern cars where everything is controlled by modules, but essentially you need to isolate one circuit at a time by pulling fuses until the ammeter reading drops. When it does you know which circuit the drain is on.

The good news is that most battery drains are caused by something very simple, and so don't overlook the obvious.......

On top of this tip top advice, also beware of any computers, monitoring sensors, I know its a completely different beast but we had been having problems with my wifes 306 killing its battery, the battery is only 7 months old, the AA popped out and using a clip on ammeter he deduced we had a 0.5amp draw on the battery and due to this it had knackered the battery so it was struggling to hold its charge,

We book it in to a peugeot specialist we use who knows the car inside out and we fully trust, when we dropped it of I told him everything that was going on, it turns out that on her car when switching the ignition of a pump in the fuel tank run for a few seconds showing a high current reading and then for 20mins the car computers monitors the engine sensors accounting for the 0.5 amp draw, after this has finished then it switches down to 0.1ish amps, it amazed me it does all this as its a S reg and a Peugeot t-boot!

After a quick look under the bonnet he quickly diagnosed the problem to be a cheap battery, when I bought the battery I shopped around for the cheapest and not the best, I got a £43 non-sealed battery from a small shop near where I live, according to the Mechanic these are £8 batteries made in China and are crap! He sudjested we buy a good make sealed battery and recommened a Varta battery, I was pleased with this as I have read high praise on this forum of Varta batteries and ironically thats what I was looking to purchase, It cost £15 more but he has guaranteed it will solve all our problems as he has seen it time after time, people buying cheap batteries and them failing within the first year!

[rum4mo]

Yes I agree with buying a proper and maybe "bigger" battery, Varta, Moll and Bosch seem okay, I'm amazed by people that just go to the "big players" like KwikFit - because they are easy to get to and buy probably a crap battery with a really good guarentee - when the battery fails you get it replaced FOC - great but what if it fails when its inconvenient or you can't get back to KwikFit to get your free replacement - not a good plan, as said put your money into "battery quality" and normally you can bin the guarentee as you will never need to use it. Oh, and all batteries are meant to now minimise the need for topping up water - but over a long service life they might still need some water - so why not try to keep buying one with removable caps as it saves ripping the seals off the top of the sealed for life ones when the indicator stops being green.My nine year old Moll one in my Passat likes a drink once a year!

[Railroad]

In my experience AC Delco Freedom batteries were the best, and they were fitted as standard on Vauxhalls. They would regularly last for six or seven years, and I knew of one on a 1982 Astra that was fourteen years old before it eventually failed.

Having worked as a patrol for both major motoring organisations I've seen more than a few failed batteries, and there's no doubt that you get what you pay for. That said, batteries from Vauxhall dealers are very reasonably priced unlike some of the other sub-standard rubbish you can buy. They fit GO batteries as standard now, but the quality seems to be every bit as good as they've ever been.

One make I'd go out of my way to avoid shares its name with the place a cricketer might be when waiting to go out to bat....

[StuartD]

Going back to the original post (which I've just stumbled across) I came back to MCR airport carpark a month ago after a 24-hour trip to Ireland. Battery in my 05-plate 1.9Tdi Edition 100 was as flat as a pancake! No lights left on, no radio, doors firmly shut, no other electrical drain. AA guy charged it up and it's not done it again (touch wood).... but neither he nor I had any idea what had caused it!

[Fred Bloggs]

Water ingress may be caused by the sunroof drains being blocked. I'd check them out if I were you. HTH.

[Sinclair]

Could have been alarm going off constantly. I hear a lot when I leave my car at Manchester