Hello,

ive recently been offered a remap by angel tuning, for only £225 which seems pretty blooming cheap, but ive got to respond to have it done on the 1st of july. I spoke to the chap on the phone who gave me the usual, also saying that due to the software on newer vags they cant detect a remap, I would like to know.

1. If angel are any good.

2. Is it worth the money,

3. Is it undetectable.

Please urgent response would be smashing

3. I don't believe anyone that says a remap is undetectable.

On that basis I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole, irrespective of answers to 1. and 2.

3. I don't believe anyone that says a remap is undetectable.

On that basis I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole, irrespective of answers to 1. and 2.

thanks for the fast reply, thats what baffled me he said something that, its undetectable on a vagcom??? :( anybody know what his on with

By virtue of the fact that ECUs can be "read", all remaps/modifications to software are detectable, there is no way around that simple fact.

Ask him to put his claims in writing and whether he is willing to underwrite (in writing) you in the event of an insurance incident involving the remap and see what he says then!

By virtue of the fact that ECUs can be "read", all remaps/modifications to software are detectable, there is no way around that simple fact.

Ask him to put his claims in writing and whether he is willing to underwrite (in writing) you in the event of an insurance incident involving the remap and see what he says then!

i can probs see what he would say to that

Insurance underwriters are checking cars likely to be mapped in the current climate at avoid payouts.

If a non declared map is your aim, then I wouldnt if you ever want a payout - even if an accident isnt your fault

ECU mapping is a computer programme with inputs and outputs the same as the computer I typed this on. The input values are throttle pedal position, air temp, engine temp, engine position, road speed ,mass indexes etc etc. the outputs are your road speed from the power of ignition either diesel or petrol it makes no odds apart from a bit ign tweaking electronically for petrol. All these values are readable, changeable, and thats it, how else would the dealer be able to tune your car to specification if he was locked out from viewing the data. your guy who said this is wrong and sounds as if he said it deliberately to suck you in. Steer clear he is not reputable.

ECU mapping is a computer programme with inputs and outputs the same as the computer I typed this on. The input values are throttle pedal position, air temp, engine temp, engine position, road speed ,mass indexes etc etc. the outputs are your road speed from the power of ignition either diesel or petrol it makes no odds apart from a bit ign tweaking electronically for petrol. All these values are readable, changeable, and thats it, how else would the dealer be able to tune your car to specification if he was locked out from viewing the data. your guy who said this is wrong and sounds as if he said it deliberately to suck you in. Steer clear he is not reputable.

thank you guys seems to be the case that he was fibbing, i didnt want to argue down the phone but i to felt that all maps could be readable, clearly shows alack of trust and arnsty!

He came out with a cracker as well he said "any one can cut your hair with scissors, but were hairdressers!" this was after i commented on companys like revo, jabba etc..

So for a briskoda conclusion.

ANGEL TUNING - ARE TO BE AVOIDED:thumbdwn:

Thanks again peeps for the responses i could have been so easily sucked in with the cheap price, and the false information ive been fed.

"any one can cut your hair with scissors, but were hairdressers!"

That's awesome, i've never head that, i'll save that if i ever want to use that one haha..

I quite like "Jack of all trades, master of none :)"

He's 50% right with the VAG-COM though. If you plug vag-com in, it wont just jump out and say, this vehicles been mapped.. But you will see a flash counter which will show how many times the car has been programmed, and if you were to log boost etc you'd see the specified, actual values etc were higher than a standard vehicle.

Not to mention even on a written off vehicle, you can read an ecu on a bench, or just de-soldier the eprom chip.

Anything's possible, with the right tools..

Saying that, i dont believe a dealer can necessarily read a map. I know they can obviously flash updates etc to the vehicle, but i've never heard of a dealer reading the file out, they dont have the tools to interrogate the file they've read out anyway, it'd have to be sent over to someone who can decipher the software, so that'd be back to germany, vw tech etc..

Kev

Edited 1 July, 200917 yr by Jabbasport

Can dealers see the checksum?

Either way it's definitely not undetectable and it's not fair to market it as such.

Can dealers see the checksum?

Either way it's definitely not undetectable and it's not fair to market it as such.

There you go again talking about checking those sums again...

Obviously some of these tuning companies are better at adding ups than others:lol:

and that's why they don't cause checksumm errors!!

kev you can use that saying whenever you want, i think whats the most shocking thing is how he was so adament that it cannot be read, and that there was no way it could be! I recommend someone actually pretend to be intrested in a remap with the guy, espically tho pro's like jabba etc.. and just take note to how the pitch there maps, and if it proves that most of what his saying isnt true. These guys are the pikeys of the mapping world "yer oll Tormac ya drive chief "

These guys are the pikeys of the mapping world "yer oll Tormac ya drive chief "

**cough** have they changed their trading name recently? **cough**

Strange thread this one. I used Angel Tuning last week, very pleased with the result, that was after searching this very forum for "angel tuning" and found they were pretty well regarded here. A few other people here then added to my thread in the Fabia 1 forum by saying they had Angel's remap and were also pleased.

Everyone has their opinion on remaps - we can't even agree as a forum whether they are even a good idea to start with - but I'm an Angel customer and happy with the result and price.

The aim of the avoidance bit isn't to fool the insurance, but to fool Skoda into continuing to provide warranty cover. A certain tuner (no names no packdrill, but based around Peterborough) supply new anti-tamper bolts on the ECU mountings after they have taken it out to remap it so a dealer won't be able to spot that it's been on the bench to be remapped.

And before anyone jumps in and says you don't have to take the ECU out to remap it, apparently you do on newer VAG cars.

The aim of the avoidance bit isn't to fool the insurance, but to fool Skoda into continuing to provide warranty cover. A certain tuner (no names no packdrill, but based around Peterborough) supply new anti-tamper bolts on the ECU mountings after they have taken it out to remap it so a dealer won't be able to spot that it's been on the bench to be remapped.

And before anyone jumps in and says you don't have to take the ECU out to remap it, apparently you do on newer VAG cars.

i think you will find for some people its both warranty cover and insurance. i dont recommend (but i understand)

i think you will find for some people its both warranty cover and insurance. i dont recommend (but i understand)

You'd be truly mental not to declare it, as they will not only not pay out, but the police will then prosecute for having no insurance.

You'd be truly mental not to declare it, as they will not only not pay out, but the police will then prosecute for having no insurance.

yer i think were all aware of it, and some people take it as a game of risk, if it goes wrong your in deep poo poo (not straying to much off topic)

A few notes:

opinions expressed are those of the poster - not those of Briskoda.

Whether you are trying to de-fraud your insurance company, the finance company that owns the car, or Skoda (for warranty claims), the consequences will be your responsibility.

A few notes:

opinions expressed are those of the poster - not those of Briskoda.

Whether you are trying to de-fraud your insurance company, the finance company that owns the car, or Skoda (for warranty claims), the consequences will be your responsibility.

Indeed. I think Angel have done themselves a dis-service with this sort of sales technique.

"any one can cut your hair with scissors, but were hairdressers!"

That's awesome, i've never head that, i'll save that if i ever want to use that one haha..

I quite like "Jack of all trades, master of none :)"

He's 50% right with the VAG-COM though. If you plug vag-com in, it wont just jump out and say, this vehicles been mapped.. But you will see a flash counter which will show how many times the car has been programmed, and if you were to log boost etc you'd see the specified, actual values etc were higher than a standard vehicle.

Not to mention even on a written off vehicle, you can read an ecu on a bench, or just de-soldier the eprom chip.

Anything's possible, with the right tools..

Saying that, i dont believe a dealer can necessarily read a map. I know they can obviously flash updates etc to the vehicle, but i've never heard of a dealer reading the file out, they dont have the tools to interrogate the file they've read out anyway, it'd have to be sent over to someone who can decipher the software, so that'd be back to germany, vw tech etc..

Kev

The programme was probably Written by someone like siemans or sagem or even posibly but unlikely Allen Bradley and all of these programmes are read using interface software and with a little training can be identified. The guy is right who wrote there is a count for each time the programme is overwritten and this is also logged when. The history recording of a vehicle is in its infancy at the moment but it is going to get better. There is even talk of the log book being recorded electronically onto the ecu rom. Certainly true mileages are not hard to log , as is journey times, weight in the vehicle at any one time, original spec engine numbers, registration details, impact data. the list is endless and I say bring it on for the genuine people like us who use this site,

yer i think were all aware of it, and some people take it as a game of risk, if it goes wrong your in deep poo poo (not straying to much off topic)

Problem is many people only worry about this after they've been found out. They truly are plonkers but then that's the way lots of people are nowadays - don't worry about things until it's too late. It truly is the "Age of Irresponsibility".

The other big worry is if they crash into someone else and their insurance is not valid - most don't have any assets to speak of for a payout.

back to OP... I had the fiat mapped by angel at 4,000 miles, and have now done 81,000 miles, and it has never given me a problem, original clutch/flywheel/turbo ect, and all still feels like new so big for angel from me, they don't make the highest figures, but its a reliable map for the mechanics....

as for the rest, my insurance company know, the garage (although its no longer under warrenty) never found the map putting their diagnostics on the car, however when the chief mechanic who usually did work on my car (he drives an evo) first took it for a spin, he came back and said, "so how much have you had it mapped to then? " lol.... sod the electronics, they drive the cars all day, all they have to do is drive it to see the difference (but again, his diagnostic computers never told him, or he didn't look for it)

lucky for me the garage in question chose to ignore it, and not tell fiat and void my warrenty...

UPDATE!

Ive been getting emails from angel about an offer on a remap quiet frequently. So i decided to email the man, along with my findings above. And got this reply. intresting reading.

Dear Rich

We did three cars today - brand new, for a dealership, each was taken into the workshop and none of them could be detected that any changes had been made. We do over 300 vehicles per month and in 7 years of remapping have never had a single issue with any car under warranty. We do a large range of manufacturers from Alfa Romeo to Volvo with no issue whatso ever. We even do work for Skoda dealerships to enhance the Fabia 2 105 to 170bhp - and again, not detectable.

I am afraid your interweb forum parrot is wrong and has obviously copied that from someone else who is wrong and believed it or passed it on as their own. I will give you an example in the opening line....As ECU mapping is NOT a computer program and if they had any idea about what they were talking about they would know that! Also, they would also know that the dealerships do NOT tune a car during any aspect of their work and do not have equipment to do so - we know as half the company is ex dealership master technicians and we also work on development of diagnostic equipment as well as working for many dealerships. If your forum parrot knew also what he was on about he would know why it isnt detectable on the ECU model on your car too as it doesnt even have CAN or a flash count lol

We have no problem with you wishing to use another company, thats your choice of course, Jabbasport are very good and we can recommend them as we can Custom Code - but what is very wrong is the information you have been told on a forum.

Oh and our 08 plate Seat Ibiza 1.4TDi is off for its 2nd service tomorrow, back at the dealers.... with the map still on it. Our fleet of vans which are all under warranty, sign written and mapped - all work carried out under warranty.

Please do not take this as having a go at you in any way, you have been sold a curve ball by a someone hiding behind a keyboard who probably works in Currys.

All the best with it - but do get it done and soon, by whoever you choose and enjoy the car to its potential rather than wait - after all, you paid for the car so why not enjoy it fully :-)

Cheers

Nigel

(He is not aware briskoda is the forum ive seeked advise with)

What do people think??

What do people think??

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: