Underhand tuners will always say it is it undetectable just to get the work. A good tuner should say remaps "are"detectable full stop and if your worried about it dont do it!

It would take me around 1 min to find out if a 1.9 /2.0 TDI, 20VT & TFSI had been remapped

We do remap direct to the main dealers and they can tell the car has been remapped by using there in house diagnostics tools and the skill to use the tools.

Newer VAG ecus have flash counters which shows how many time an ecu has been flashed, if the ecu say 1 and the online database says 0 then there is good cause to look in to the mapping, a simple test drive will give it a way, if not just logging the boost using vagcom will show near on the exact gains. So dealers can find out with ease and they DO void warranty claims if your trying to pull the wool over there eyes. Your best bet is be open with you dealer tell them about the remap and they will respect you more and pull a few strings if needed.

I cannot see a company tuning 25000+ remap cars and not having one customer with a dealer warranty claim?

Now to the insurance companies, It is harder for them to prove that a car has been remapped after it has a bumped. It will cost them shed loads of money to prove it the software had been changed to produce added power. I dont know one person in the UK who could provide the evidence and make it stick, the only people who could provide the evidence would be a professor in this field or a worker from Bosch who was involded in putting the code togehter.

IMO "Tell" your dealer and insurance company.

Nick

Just reading his reply, I couldnt belive it :/

Pmsl.

The 1.9pd tdi and 1.8t vag engine ecus dont have a flash counter, so your typical generic scanner would not show up any abnormalities (as far as i know)

The 1.9pd tdi and 1.8t vag engine ecus dont have a flash counter, so your typical generic scanner would not show up any abnormalities (as far as i know)

True. but its the new stuff with the counters that are still under warranty.

The 2.0Tfsi MED9 ecus, and EDC16/17 1.9 /2.0TDI ecu use the E2 counter system.

The current build of Fabia Vrs still use edc15p+ ecus and dont use the counters as yet.

The 20vt ME7.5 and 1.9TDI EDC15 ecu dont use counters but do have real time requests which can be looked at using vagcom.

The next bit of blag in the tuning game is tuners saying there maps are ISO9002 or TUV approved. Only the tools can be TUV approved in germany and not the remap software or the tuners skills. And the ISO9002 is down to good practice with the admin side of the company.. ie of you have a first aid box, accident book, HSE sign etc then you can get a ISO9002 on the company not the mapping or tuning skills.

Then the next blag is warranty and remaps. Some tuners say they give a life time warranty with the remap, but if you look at the small print it only if the software code screws up and not if the engine or turbo blows. It is rare a remap will ever fail once its in the car.

We offer no warranty with remaps, its carried out at the owners risk. How are we to know a turbo wont fail on a 150pd with 110k on the clocks once remapped? its the risk and I make sure every cutomer knows a remap could kill an engine or turbo stright away without the software being at fault. (Touch wood its only ever been one VNT15 thats gone tits up during test drive)

The new one is "insurance approved remap" I aint got a clue how this works? or even if it works?

You need to speak to a tuner over the phone to get an idea of how good they are, ask them questions about the engine, where the current mpg should be and where to expect, , what problems to expect from the remap, ie weak coil packs, MAF fault, DV not working with the extra boost, boost leaks, clutch slip etc... If they say you will never have problem, then again keep clear. All the ammunition you need is on the forums so read up and shoot your question at them.

True. but its the new stuff with the counters that are still under warranty.

The 2.0Tfsi MED9 ecus, and EDC16/17 1.9 /2.0TDI ecu use the E2 counter system.

The current build of Fabia Vrs still use edc15p+ ecus and dont use the counters as yet.

The 20vt ME7.5 and 1.9TDI EDC15 ecu dont use counters but do have real time requests which can be looked at using vagcom.

The next bit of blag in the tuning game is tuners saying there maps are ISO9002 or TUV approved. Only the tools can be TUV approved in germany and not the remap software or the tuners skills. And the ISO9002 is down to good practice with the admin side of the company.. ie of you have a first aid box, accident book, HSE sign etc then you can get a ISO9002 on the company not the mapping or tuning skills.

Then the next blag is warranty and remaps. Some tuners say they give a life time warranty with the remap, but if you look at the small print it only if the software code screws up and not if the engine or turbo blows. It is rare a remap will ever fail once its in the car.

We offer no warranty with remaps, its carried out at the owners risk. How are we to know a turbo wont fail on a 150pd with 110k on the clocks once remapped? its the risk and I make sure every cutomer knows a remap could kill an engine or turbo stright away without the software being at fault. (Touch wood its only ever been one VNT15 thats gone tits up during test drive)

The new one is "insurance approved remap" I aint got a clue how this works? or even if it works?

You need to speak to a tuner over the phone to get an idea of how good they are, ask them questions about the engine, where the current mpg should be and where to expect, , what problems to expect from the remap, ie weak coil packs, MAF fault, DV not working with the extra boost, boost leaks, clutch slip etc... If they say you will never have problem, then again keep clear. All the ammunition you need is on the forums so read up and shoot your question at them.

All true, but even with the E2, the count can be altered if a company had the resources, time and money (paid for by the customer) to remove the ecu and open it up. But at the end of the day that would be fraud in my eyes.

All true, but even with the E2, the count can be altered if a company had the resources, time and money (paid for by the customer) to remove the ecu and open it up. But at the end of the day that would be fraud in my eyes.

Most of the current OBD tools have the flash counter reset built in, some of them will just reset to "0" some you can set the exact number you want so you need to know what the counter was on prior to the remap. Plus I have tried 2 counter resets on 2 high end tools and they both failed to return the counter back correct so the VAG service tool would not see them. We had been playing with the tool on a 2008 VW mk5 Demo car in a main dealer workshop. Since then I have never even tried to reset one since.

The flash counter on the VAG daignostics system is in a few menus back you have to go and look for it. During basic routine service or warranty work there would be no reason to look for the counter. only if they had a good reason to think the car has been mapped they would look, and to point out the 2 main VW and seat dealers local did not know about the counter until I mentioned it to them.

The BDM method leaves no software finger print, but you can still log via obd and work out its been mapped, plus the BMD method makes visual a mess of the ecu outer case.

But even with the flash count being correct it is still easy for a dealer to find out within a few mins just by logging 1 block of data.

Dealers want the warranty work from Skods HQ, at the end of the day the dealer gets paid for lets say fitting a new turbo. Why would they want to try and void warranty work? You will find some dealers asking some customer up front it there car has been remapped and working with the customer. Tell them the car is remapped and they wont over write the software during a routine service.

The next worry for tuners is the new gen of edc17 BMW ecu which are classed as anti tune so I have been told?? And one day the hardware will move in to vag chassis..:(

i think its quite a reasonable email and pretty good service

i think its quite a reasonable email and pretty good service

O i agree his well mannered with lots of information. Its just there is a colide in information. All i wanted to know was is it detectable to a dealer! It seems that it is. But his said that is isnt. So its kinda like who do i trust. The man who does it for a living, or the chaps on here who give advise to help people :confused:

The next worry for tuners is the new gen of edc17 BMW ecu which are classed as anti tune so I have been told?? And one day the hardware will move in to vag chassis..:(

I wouldn't worry about that, infact the sooner the better. Aftermarket ECU's will come into place, and with increased numbers of customers the price of them will come down . For serious tuners this will be a godsend.

O i agree his well mannered with lots of information. Its just there is a colide in information. All i wanted to know was is it detectable to a dealer! It seems that it is. But his said that is isnt. So its kinda like who do i trust. The man who does it for a living, or the chaps on here who give advise to help people :confused:

"Bigbhp18t" does remapping for a living and is worth listening to. I live not far from his premises and he remapped my wife's Fabia 1.9TDI at the end of last month. Very good job too - runs very sweetly and makes it a nippy runabout.

I think the bottom line is that a remap IS always detectable - it just depends how long and how hard you look for it. At the end of the day the ECU's 'map' is just a collection of number arrays. If you read the sets of numbers out of the ECU and compare them with the manufacturers OE code then it will become clear whether anything has been altered. In reality though, the average spanner-man at your local dealership in unlikely to go looking for it. Similarly if you had a minor bump and bent a wing your insurance co. is unlikely to go examining the ECU - it would not be economically justified. On the other hand if you were to be involved in a very serious accident then the insurance co., and possibly the police, might undertake a very in-depth investigation which would reveal the remap.

Hmmm with this said might be worth going for a remap with angel then £225 is a bargain, and he comes to your door. Maybe xmas present

Edited 12 September, 200916 yr by DGW
No need to quote previous post.

You might also want to consider PM'ing Bigbhp18t - he's also mobile, but he's not that far away from you to be honest, and has a good reputation (certainly amongst the Golf IV lads) and, as I said, appears to have done a good job on my wife's Fabia.

I have no connection other than as a satisfied customer.

I wouldn't worry about that, infact the sooner the better. Aftermarket ECU's will come into place, and with increased numbers of customers the price of them will come down . For serious tuners this will be a godsend.

Back to my roots then with standalone stuff, give me an Omex system and I am well away..lol I wonder if they will ever do a derv setup? thata whay the fun beigns and big bhp derv guns will come out.

Thank you i will bare you recommendation in mind, nearer the time