I was doing a search last night on DPF's, and was amazed and shocked just how many seem to be having or have had problems with it.

I was therefore wondering if DPF's can be removed, but couldn't find anyone asking the question, so, can they? :confused:

The thought of purchasing a modern diesel with this seemingly tiresome bit of kit is filling me with great doubt now tbh.

Some aftermarket exhaust manufacturers are making bypass pipes for certain models now. I'm afraid that's as much as I know.

You cant simply remove a DPF, like you can a Cat. Bypass pipes are available for some Skoda models, however you will also need to have the DPF mapped out of the ECU so as to avoid limp mode and the CEL lighting up. JBS and has developed a DPF removal map and downpipe combo for the Octavia, others are not far behind.

Mine never went wrong in 24k miles, I just didn't really want it on there so JBS took it off for me.

Mine never went wrong in 24k miles, I just didn't really want it on there so JBS took it off for me.

Oh these are encouraging posts. I was fully expecting some negative response here too!

Tell us Wega, have you noticed any difference in how the car behaves since removal, and roughly how much did it all cost?

Considering how much grief DPF's appear to be causing right across the motor industry, it makes you wonder why they persevere with it? :confused:

My next and iminent (diesel 'cus of my mileage) purchase will either NOT have a DPF, or it will need to be removed successfully.

I bought my PD170 VRS TDI in April specifically because the option to remove the DPF had become available. See from this post onward http://briskoda.net/octavia-ii/any-pd-vrs-drivers-considering-custom-code-dpf-removal-map/143735/2/#post1754025 of my own DPF removal thread. I posted an update yesterday near the end of page 3 talking about the economy and performance.

I bought my PD170 VRS TDI in April specifically because the option to remove the DPF had become available. See from this post onward http://briskoda.net/octavia-ii/any-pd-vrs-drivers-considering-custom-code-dpf-removal-map/143735/2/#post1754025 of my own DPF removal thread. I posted an update yesterday near the end of page 3 talking about the economy and performance.

Cheers fellah. I'll have a good read of all that tonight.

Searching doesn't always bring up the stuff you want to read about.

I sincerely hope no kittens have died on this occassion.

I hope this may help as i work for VW

The main reason why we have DPF faults is due to the car not warming up properly.

In the vehicles manual it states the car must be able to get warm frequently, and if the car gets mainly town/short trips, it doesn't get the DPF warm enough and causes the light to come on. If this happens, giving the car a thrash to get it warm usually puts the light out as the DPF warms up and burns all the crap away ( thats what it does, and why it needs to get warm) but if it doesnt get the chance to get hot and burn off the deposits it can get too clogged ( in basic terms) and fail, requiring a new one.

Though we do have the occasional one that is faulty, but its not that common in VW's

As said if coded out and removed it wont cause any damage, it just wont be as 'clean'

I hope this may help as i work for VW

The main reason why we have DPF faults is due to the car not warming up properly.

In the vehicles manual it states the car must be able to get warm frequently, and if the car gets mainly town/short trips, it doesn't get the DPF warm enough and causes the light to come on. If this happens, giving the car a thrash to get it warm usually puts the light out as the DPF warms up and burns all the crap away ( thats what it does, and why it needs to get warm) but if it doesnt get the chance to get hot and burn off the deposits it can get too clogged ( in basic terms) and fail, requiring a new one.

Though we do have the occasional one that is faulty, but its not that common in VW's

As said if coded out and removed it wont cause any damage, it just wont be as 'clean'

So in other words, if you spend most of your time driving around town's and city's, doing short stop and start runs etc, DO NOT buy a car, or even more alarmingly, a van, with a DPF. :rotz:

Yes

Yes

More and more manufacturers are fitting them as standard now though, leaving a rapidly declining choice for your average motorist that probably knows absolutely diddly squat about them.

I wonder if the salesmen/women ask about style of driving whilst selling these DPF shod vehicles? :rotz:

I wonder if they even know what they are!!

The sales people should mention it these days, I've heard them do it. I've also seen notices up in dealerships about suitability of DPFs.

Just a quick addition to Russ_16v's post... I'm pretty sure that come the time the DPF gets so clogged that it needs to go to a dealer, it can still be cleaned, to a point. But when it gets too dirty, it needs to be replaced.

As others have said, the big problem with DPFs seems to be people with unsuitable day-to-day driving routines, i.e. short trips. When I bought my car, it was a demo car and the DPF light was on. After driving it home on the motorway the light went off and I've never seen it since (I drive on motorways a lot).

As others have said, the big problem with DPFs seems to be people with unsuitable day-to-day driving routines, i.e. short trips. When I bought my car, it was a demo car and the DPF light was on. After driving it home on the motorway the light went off and I've never seen it since (I drive on motorways a lot).

I'd actually like to turn that point upside down, and state that it's in fact the manufacturers that are fitting unsuitable ridiculous gadgets to their products, (by EU regulations I presume, granted ) rather than people driving in an suitable fashion to suit the manufacturers.

I remember when the Pug.406 came out, and the salesman made such a big song and dance to me about this wonderful :confused: DPF that was available as an optional extra!

Wow, no thanks.

I'd actually like to turn that point upside down, and state that it's in fact the manufacturers that are fitting unsuitable ridiculous gadgets to their products, (by EU regulations I presume, granted ) rather than people driving in an suitable fashion to suit the manufacturers.

I remember when the Pug.406 came out, and the salesman made such a big song and dance to me about this wonderful :confused: DPF that was available as an optional extra!

Wow, no thanks.

It's not a ridiculous gadget, it reduces air pollution greatly. You may not care about that, but many people do.

I do think that dealers could do far better in terms of educating buyers, but if they tell a potential buyer that they shouldn't buy a certain car because it has a DPF and isn't suited to their driving, then that customer walks on by... not good business

I think the thing is, it's not a bad idea in principal. The problems lie in implementations and customer knowledge. I've certainly never personally heard of a single problem with the BMW ones. The Skoda PD170 ones seem to have been fine since 26E6 and most people should just leave them alone and not give them another thought. I only got mine taken off because I'm a nerd and it kind of interested me and I wanted better mpg and more performance than was possible with it in place. My mechanic says the early Peugeot ones were dire.

Is it not more a case of education by the sales man rather than a questioning to what use the vehicle will be put too.

As most derv cars will have a DPF on soon enough then they need to encourage customers to ensure that they give the car a nice run every week or so to help clean it off. Doesnt need to be a thrash (albeit more fun of course), a drive down the nearest NSL road or Dual carriageway at 50/60 mph will be adequate providing the revs are at around 1800-2000 so the temp can build up and burn off the excess.

Even the older amongst us that dont "thrash" around in their cars can manage that surely?

Since having the 2e6e update done, my vRS has been used for more town driving than anything else but does get the occasional 30 minute run at speed and not had any problems at all.

Only had the lights come on once, and that was just before the car was due its first service and had the update done. Just immediatley took a detour to a NSL road, 10 mins later light went off.

Steve

So in other words, if you spend most of your time driving around town's and city's, doing short stop and start runs etc, DO NOT buy a car, or even more alarmingly, a van, with a DPF. :rotz:

More along the lines of if you do most of your time driving around town's and city's, doing short stop and start runs etc, then understand the vehicle will need a run regularly to clean the DPF. As posted its not a flat out thrash, more of a trip to let it warm up fully (say 1/2 - 45mins for example,using more of the rev range with the vehicle being under load)

A good example was a previous post, dealer cars tend to be run on mainly short trips ( our runs out are only a few miles) and that is why the DPF light was on, and as posted a short motorway stint has put out the light and it has not returned.

If you do short journies VW do suggest not having a DPF equipped car.

At the moment the technology for DPF's is not great enough that it can be used in all works of life, and does need a run to clean it, i dare say in time to come this will be remedied, but at present this is the technology level we are running at.

It's not a ridiculous gadget, it reduces air pollution greatly. You may not care about that, but many people do.

Where exactly did I say that please? :confused:

I'm more concerned about the reliabilty of this device at the moment, as it seems from doing a search on the subject that the VAG version of it has been giving plenty of trouble.

As for alledgedly not caring about pollution, may I suggest that you don't jump to concluusions so readily.

I DO actually care, but just how much extra pollution is being created by having to take your car back on a regular basis for either clearing or replacing the DPF, having to drive for 2 miles at 3-4 thousand RPM until the light goes out or whatever the manual says, ( I haven't got a DPF on the Fabia, so I don't have full and 100%recommendations to hand) and if it works properly, doesn't it blow all the soot out automatically every thousand miles anyway by means of a self induced backfire.... iirc?

Not very non polluting that if I may say so.

Where exactly did I say that please? :confused:

I'm more concerned about the reliabilty of this device at the moment, as it seems from doing a search on the subject that the VAG version of it has been giving plenty of trouble.

As for alledgedly not caring about pollution, may I suggest that you don't jump to concluusions so readily.

I DO actually care, but just how much extra pollution is being created by having to take your car back on a regular basis for either clearing or replacing the DPF, having to drive for 2 miles at 3-4 thousand RPM until the light goes out or whatever the manual says, ( I haven't got a DPF on the Fabia, so I don't have full and 100%recommendations to hand) and if it works properly, doesn't it blow all the soot out automatically every thousand miles anyway by means of a self induced backfire.... iirc?

Not very non polluting that if I may say so.

You're reading my comment as "You may not care about air pollution", whereas it was intended to read as "You may not care about air pollution". Crossed wires there I think! Put it another way, I meant "Perhaps you don't care about air pollution"... It was intended as a question and not a statement of fact!

I was inclined to think it wasn't a priority for you though, because you described a DPF as a ridiculous gadget, so it didn't appear that air pollution was a priority for you. If you describe something aimed at reducing air pollution as ridiculous, how do you think that was likely to be interpreted?

Anyway, back to the DPF itself. Like all technologies, I think early adopters might have suffered in the name of progress

I have one and don't have to perform any of the actions you describe (cleaning, replacing, etc). It's entirely down to how you drive and whether that's suitable to having a DPF. If not, then the actions you describe might be required. I think education is key here, but the general public are generally thick when it comes to this kind of thing, and dealers don't appear to be falling over themselves to explain the issue. Why would they, if it risks a potential sale??

Out of interest, does the DPF on the new CR engine require the same care? Or is this a particular problem for the PD engine?

. I think education is key here, but the general public are generally thick when it comes to this kind of thing, and dealers don't appear to be falling over themselves to explain the issue. Why would they, if it risks a potential sale??

Out of interest, does the DPF on the new CR engine require the same care? Or is this a particular problem for the PD engine?

OK. Wires crossed it is then.

I agree that the public probably are generally and blissfully unaware of the required driving style if a DPF is fitted.

However I think the problem lies with both the manufacturers and dealers alike here, for hiding behind an anti pollution smoke screen, if you'll pardon the pun.

I mean, why would general Joe public think he may have to alter his driving style to prevent future problems. He wants a certain car, and this DPF system will just wash straight over the majority, most of whom won't even know that it's got one, let alone know what it does!

It's surely down to the dealer sales folk to stress the importance of driving style at an early stage of a potential sale., otherwise they are going to be receiving plenty of adverse publicity when 'Joe' has to keep coming back 'cus his car's gone into limp mode yet again.

As stated in an earlier post, I was horrified by the number of complaints in here regarding this issue when I did a search the other night, and I guess most of the members concerned DO drive in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations.

To be honest, the DPF doesn't worry me that much. I've had no problems with it, touch wood... I am aware that they are surprisingly expensive to change if they do fail though :eek:

(I'm actually much more worried about the turbo failing than the DPF, because it has the potential to take the engine with it)

The CR engines do seem to cope better than the PD, but it is still an issue shall we say, to make sure the car gets warm regularly.

Again it all falls back to driving style and useage, there is no clear cut instructions etc, as each person uses and drives their vehicles differently.

I hope this helps, this is from one of my links from VW:

"Diesel particulate filters (DPF) are becoming more common-place on diesel engines, particularly the 2.0L TDI pumpe-düse (PD) and common rail diesel (CRD). This is in order to reduce particulate matter in exhaust emissions as required by European legislation. A DPF traps most of the soot (particulate matter) that is produced during diesel combustion and holds it until a certain soot level is reached. A process called ‘regeneration’ is used in order to clear the soot trapped in the DPF. ‘Regeneration’ occurs when the exhaust temperatures are around 500°C. There are two types of ‘regeneration’, passive and active:

Passive regeneration occurs on long motorway journeys, where the exhaust system gets very hot and burns off the soot unaided.

Active regeneration occurs when the soot level reaches a certain point in the DPF. The soot level is constantly monitored by the Engine Control Unit, which triggers ‘active regeneration’ when necessary, raising the exhaust temperature and burning off the soot.

Problems occur when the conditions for ‘regeneration’ are not met. This could be due to frequent short trips or stop/start driving when the ‘regeneration’ process does not run for long enough to be effective. There is a high risk of this in urban/inner-city/Channel Island areas. Additionally, vehicles that spend a lot of time idling (eg taxis), accumulate soot faster, hence the need for regeneration is higher.

When the DPF light illuminates, customers should refer to the Owners’ Handbook, which states: ‘The DPF symbol lights up to indicate that the diesel particulate filter has become obstructed with soot due to frequent short trips. When the warning lamp comes on, you should drive at a speed of at least 37 mph and an engine speed between 1,800 and 2,500 rpm for about 10 minutes. As a result of the increase in temperature the soot in the filter will be burned off. If the DPF symbol does not go out, please contact a qualified workshop and have the fault rectified.’

Future legislation

Future European emissions legislation (EU5/EU6) is set to reduce the exhaust emission limits even further. Current EU4 exhaust emission limits for particulate matter are 0.025g/km.The proposed limit for particulate matter for EU5 is 0.005g/km (expected introduction 1 September 2009), which will almost certainly mean that all diesel engines will need a DPF in order to meet the required targets."

The introduction of the common rail diesel engine used in Volkswagen Group vehicles brings with it an enhanced DPF filter and diesel injection technology. This allows better control of the ‘regeneration’ process, thus reducing the effects on customer driving profile and issues within urban/inner-city areas

To be honest, the DPF doesn't worry me that much. I've had no problems with it, touch wood... I am aware that they are surprisingly expensive to change if they do fail though :eek:

If anyone's DPF DOES totally fail outside of warranty, always remember I've got one in beautiful condition in my shed. PM me when the time comes. Remember that for when your warranty runs out.

If anyone's DPF DOES totally fail outside of warranty, always remember I've got one in beautiful condition in my shed. PM me when the time comes. Remember that for when your warranty runs out.

Just out of interest, how much are they new + fitting?

I'm sitting down with a cold flannel,smelling salts and a large single malt in anticipation of the price.