I think I see where ap0gee is coming from.

Maybe the OP could clarify the situation - your first post mentions driving 20 miles on the motorway, but you then say it was oil splashes on the back of the car that first alerted you to the problem.

So presumably you had exited the motorway and driven to your final destination. How far was this from the motorway?

You don't mention any other signs of a problem (performance drops, warning lights, abnormal noises) and oil was still coming out of the car by the time you had parked up, got out, noticed the oil splashes, checked the exhaust, and finally looked under the car - how long did that take?

I see what you are saying but under The Supply of Goods Act 1982 there is a clause that says they MUST Promise to supply services with reasonable care and skill and non affirmation of that is breach of the contract.

Sorry to sound mad BUT I'M F****** FUMING HERE. I THINK THATS PRETTY BIG F****** BREACH DONT YOU ???

As said in the post regarding my Solicitor getting involved.

Sorry to sound mad BUT I'M F****** FUMING HERE. I THINK THATS PRETTY BIG BREACH as said in the post regardign my Solicitor gettign involved.

You have every right to sound mad.

I just think some of the comments on here have offered rather too much encouragement with regard to the chances of you getting a new car - especially as the full facts of the incident hadn't (and still haven't for that matter) been established.

I just hope your solicitor is offering a free initial consultation to review whether you have a good valid case, or that he/she is willing to work on a "no win no fee" basis.

That said, only you can decide how to proceed, and I hope you prove me wrong

Having read all this of this thread, plus the circumstances of the issue, I have to side with ap0gee and Andy. You've mentioned engine wear must have occured. If no low oil warning light illuminated, on what basis do you make that statement?

I understand your anger and frustration. I also understand the Sale of Goods Act. But without comprehensive evidence of damage, I don't see that you'll get very far getting a new engine/turbo etc etc fitted, or indeed a new car. The facts you've presented, along with any evidence you've eluded to, just don't add up to those outcomes in my view.

However I wish you the very best of luck reaching an outcome that you're happy with.

Steve

HJ as in Honest John as in the link I posted in my last reply.

Here are my predictions for the future:

Your solicitor will tell you not to waste your time pursuing a claim for criminal damage over your door, and any threat to do so to the dealer will destroy any goodwill they might have left with you. If you press for a civil action over the matter, their solicitor will discredit the RAC damage report on the grounds that the patrolman was called out to a recovery job on a car that had run out of oil, so could reasonably be expected not to have seen any bodywork damage.

If you stop paying the finance company, they will repossess the car, and serve you with a CCJ.

If you keep pushing with your claim for a new engine and turbo, the first thing the dealer will do is scan the ECU memory for signs of low oil pressure, and if what you say is true, not find any. They will inform their solicitor of this, who will probably tell them to say 'see you in court' to you, or might tell them to get an engineer's report to be on the safe side. It will then end up in court, where you will have to testify that your car did indeed lose some oil through their negligence, however you didn't see any warning lights, and the fact that there was still at least some oil coming out of the car when you stopped means that you have no way of knowing exactly how much you lost. The dealer will then present the fault scan report and/or the engineer's report, and the judge will throw the case out just like in the example in the HJ article.

I'm sorry this isn't the tea and sympathy you're after, but the only thing you have any real evidence for is that they didn't put the sump plug in properly. You can't prove how much oil you lost; there aren't any warning lights you can cite as evidence of having lost a dengerous amount, and; there don't seem to be any noises / rough running to suggest any damage was caused.

You need to look at this objectively. I can understand you're racked off with the situation, but you need to make sure you actually have some evidence of any lasting effects, otherwise the judge will come to the conclusion that the dealer's error was caught just in time, and other than putting the sump plug in properly and replacing the oil that was lost, they have no case to answer.

Shocking someone can't even tighten up a sump nut properly :eek:

And they're turbocharged as well aren't they, can't imagine losing oil does much good to the turbo :(

Like the others have said though the engine and turbo would need to be properly inspected for signs of any damage due to lack of oil before you could expect to get a whole new engine out of it. And the supplying dealer / servicing garage should pay for that inspection to be done.

BUT HE'S NOT STATED THERE'S ANY EVIDENCE OF DAMAGE!!!

Seriously, a reality-check is needed here! There doesn't seem to be any basis to these sue-sue-sue, compo-compo-compo posts. Tell the dealer you're not leaving until the car's been inspected at their cost, or until they agree to indemnify you against potential damage for a reasonable period. But going on the offensive based on what MIGHT have happened, rather than thinking, 'Phew! That was close! Won't get it serviced THERE again!' seems to me like your anger and disappointment is leading you into a situation where your and the dealer's solicitors are going to be the only winners.

I'm not saying this because I'm siding with the dealer; I'm saying it based on precedent, remember...

An intelligent, sensible post in not so sensible times.....

What a pi55er :thumbdwn:

I feel for you mate but I'm leaning towards ap0gee's view that you'll be lucky to get a new car/engine/turbo. BUT, what about the dent as well?

The lack of basic comptence to screw a sump plug in properly is one thing, but combined with denting the car as well would be a case that the garage was willfully negligent.

Littlebull, has the garage got CCTV? Ask to see footage of the time your car was in the garage to prove if it was them or not. It's all in the proof.

Good luck

Honestly thanks to all of you for all your advice the service manager of the dealership is back in on Monday morning so I will be having words with him.

Just think of it like this though... If you who is reading this RIGHT NOW were in my shoes and had just spent £16,000 on a BRAND NEW car that you travelled all the way from West Yorkshire to London for because it was the last one in the country in it's colour and you've only had it for 3 months and a dealership does this to you

WHAT WOULD YOU WANT ????????

Im just going to wait for Mazda UK to get back in touch regarding this situation first before taking any further steps as I have to give them chance first.

However I am building my ammo supplies ready for battle.

At times like this I wish I would have just stuck with "Mellow the Yellow Furby RS" I miss you :( xxx

Edited 20 August, 200916 yr by Littlebull

Honestly thanks to all of you for all your advice the service manager of the dealership is back in on Monday morning so I will be having words with him.

Just think of it like this though... If you who is reading this RIGHT NOW were in my shoes and had just spent £16,000 on a BRAND NEW car that you travelled all the way from West Yorkshire to London for because it was the last one in the country in it's colour and you've only had it for 3 months and a dealership does this to you

WHAT WOULD YOU WANT ????????

Can't argue with you there :(

I completely understand what you're saying. But, despite that, if may well be the case that there's going to be a difference between 'what you want' and what will realistically happen.

Steve

I completely understand what you're saying. But, despite that, if may well be the case that there's going to be a difference between 'what you want' and what will realistically happen.

Steve

I get you Wardy but I will get my satisfaction I'm 100% confident of that !

Hope all's well with your car mate

Well, best of luck with your chosen course of action. I hope you come through it in- rather than out-of-pocket.

A similar thing happened to my Brother in his Saab 9-5. However, his engine had the decency to seize up, so Saab had no alternative but to give him a new engine and turbo under warranty.

Al you can do is go through the process and not expend too much on legal advice beyond a solicitor's letter as soon as they start to receive legal type letters, Mazda will call in their lawyers and you'll for ever waiting for legal types to talk to each other.

Phil

Just to clarify, I'm not saying you will get a new car, but I think an engine replacement on a brand new car would devalue it.

As such you should point out you think the car has been damaged by oil leaving the engine and going everywhere. As such you think the car has been damaged and devalues, so you would like a new car minus a small fee for mileage covered or you expect them to replace the engine and oil fed ancillaries (turbo inc) and all the sensors, bushes etc that have been covered in oil.

When they come back with their answer to that request is when you start dropping a bomb as opposed to before as then you either have a good answer (yes sir we will) or an unacceptable answer you would pursue up the chain.

Apogee and Andy are right ...... I would be hacked off to, but you also need to stay calm, lay off the legal threats and start talking with the dealer and Mazda UK.

Getting wound up about it is going to solve nothing apart from give you a hernia and whilst the dealer is potentially in the wrong, they, up to a point need to be kept on side and good will maintained.

I really do understand that you are (here comes the understatement) "miffed" but any screaming and shouting or indeed legal threats to the dealer will lose any goodwill, the shutters will close and your fight is harder.

If you lost the goodwill apsect of something like this, what's to stop them putting a counter claim in saying that you or indeed someone else had tinkered with the sump plug? it all then get very messy.

There is some good advice coming from the more level headed people on this forum (I am not one of those), try to take a step back a deep breath and re-evaluate the situation and the approach

Just thinking aloud based on past experience:

They might choose to remind you that you have no right to betterment, in other words you can't expect to come away with more than you had to start with. An entirely new engine might fall under this category, whereas a rebuilt one (even your own) woudn't. If a part is broken then it's pretty clear that it needs to be swapped, but things like engine wear are hard, if not impossible to quantify. The law deals with absolutes and not 'what ifs'.

They probably do have a legal obligation to put right the things that they caused to go wrong to their satisfaction, but it might be shaky ground to make demands over what should be done. Likewise compensation - stating 'I'd like £X because of these reasons' will probably get you rejected. Claiming for reasonable hire car expenses, and additional costs incurred in dealing with the case might be considered reasonable, but probably not additional cash for any hardship you might feel you've experienced. Attempting to claim for reduced market value of the car will probably be a non-starter because if it's properly fixed then that shouldn't be affected - it's not as if you have to state the case history to anty prospective buyers. It's harsh, but that's the way it tends to go.

I think Ap0gee is spot on in geting the dealership to state clearly that the car is fine so that you can hammer them if something unexpected happens in the future. The independent engineers report would be an asset too. You might possibly be able to push for an extended warranty period, ideally one that can be transferred to any new owners, but that's very thin ice again.

Regardless, I hope you manage to get it sorted out to your satisfaction. It's frustrating beyond words to feel that you're being shafted by a company simply because they can.

I think the damage to the engine might depend on when the plug fell out...either at the beggining or toward the end of the journey.

I like the way they said it sounded OK. Old bangers that have done 250,000 can sound ok but I bet there is fair engine wear.

Is there a way to tell if the engine has wear ? Would a compression test show anything.

Gotta say mate the only winners will be the legal vultures :(

should of just kept going and let it melt into one lump! then claim sooooo much easier

I am not an expert on these matters, but years working in Insurance, plus subsequently in the motor trade (before redundancy) suggests a couple of points:

Damage caused by negligence, i.e. to your door, whether admitted or not is NOT a Criminal but a Civil matter and the Police will have no interest in it.

You say that on looking under the car oil was pouring out. Given that draining the bulk of the oil from a hot engine by removing a sump plug takes only a matter of a couple of minutes, it appears that it could only have "dropped out" very very shortly before you noticed it. This coupled with the fact that the oil pressure light failed to come on suggests that there is very unlikely to be any damage to the engine.

This doesn't appear to be a warranty claim, but a straightforward case of negligence by and hence liability of the Dealer.

Good luck with your Solicitor.

Gotta say mate the only winners will be the legal vultures :(

I like it when they win cash at the moment

Hmm this fence is spiky

Edited 20 August, 200916 yr by cheezemonkhai

Some years ago I was a passenger in a Rover 213 at 70 mph when the oil filter came loose, resulting in oil loss and loss of pressure. That car, once it had a new filter and oil was fine for years and 10s of 1000s miles afterwards. That was main dealer serviced on the previous day.

If you got a new engine, there is nothing to stop the dealer from stripping your old one and taking a few measurements. If it's all within tolerances and your attitude towards them have motivated them enough, they may make a counter claim against you. Also would you really want them to swap the multitude of ancilliaries and sensors from your old engine to a new one?, it would be even worse if Mazda supply a short engine and cylinder head separately, considering their ineptitude at tightening a sump plug.

As it is the engine appears to have suffered no ill effects and the cars still got plenty of warranty on it, why not run it for a while and see what happens?

It certainly would have been more clear cut if the engine had just seized up.

10:04 Hours this morning

Service department from the dealer calls and the (Acting manager) informs me that they have put a plug in topped the oil up and fired the engine up and sounds ok and taken it for a run and seems ok. THEN... He tells me "I'm just making you aware that theres a DINT in your OFF SIDE REAR DOOR"

My reply "What do you take me for a F****** C*** ???" "That car is my pride and joy I knew that there was no damage on that vehicle when I left it in your compound at 18:55 Yesterday evening AS THE RAC REPORT ALSO STATES !.

The F** T*** didn't even have the balls to listen to my concerns as I expressed my dissatisfaction of their dealership.

10:20 Hours This Morning

OFF THE RECORD...

I have spoken to another Mazda dealer (One that I trust but is 200 odd miles away) service manager there said to make an Official complaint with Mazda UK.

10:28 Hours this morning

Official complaint logged with Mazda UK. I informed them of all of the above and said I will not be satisfied unless I have a NEW ENGINE & TURBO FITTED F.O.C. and further have the damage caused by the dealership repaired to a satisfactory standard F.O.C. on the OFF SIDE REAR DOOR. Otherwise I shall be calling the Police and making an official LOG of either WRECKLESS or CRIMINAL DAMAGE.

10:46 Hours this morning

Informed SANTANDER FINANCE of my official complaint with MAZDA UK and informed them that I shall not be paying them unless the above is carried out to my satisfaction as MAZDA UK will be in breach of contract if they do not carry out the work that is required. I was informed they are sending me out an official letter of complaint that I need to fill in and send back to them.

RANT DONE GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR !

Is this Briskoda or the new series of 24 ...... send for Jack Bauer

Sorry, I could not resist.

1. I would want a new car to, but do I think I would be entitled to one? No.
   
2. I would want a letter of comfort from the dealership (backed up by Mazda UK in case dealership goes bust) giving assurances/ guarantees covering any component potentially damaged by the oil leak for a reasonable period of time after the repair.
   
3. I would also want the dent fixed to my satisfaction FOC.
   
4. I would also like to think the dealer would offer some gesture of goodwill (free service perhaps). If this is not offered, then I would take my future business elsewhere.
   

Expecting anything more would in my opinion not be reasonable. If I got more, then it would be a result!

In short littlebull - I sincerely doubt you will get a new car, or a new engine for that matter. As other members have said, tell them you want an independent engineer to check the engine over, at their cost, and they can rectify this situation by resolving any problems that MAY come up. When the car is repaired, make sure you get it in writing that the vehicle is repaired to manufacturers requirements, and that it is signed by a manager. This way, if any premature engine/turbo problems arise, you have something to fall back on.

It sucks, it really does. I had a Renault Clio Sport (£15k at the time) and it was back to the dealers 46 times (in 13months - honestly, I only managed 4,688miles by trade-in time) for major problems, electrical failures, exhaust failures, fit & trim failures, and it seems that if a dealer is willing to fix a problem, then thats their asses covered.

Frustrating. I hope you get this sorted - one way or another, but tread carefully.

Dave.