Will it kill me?

I've searched and there's no shortage of people singing their praises, and mentioning lift off oversteer?

My cars almost completely standard so I'm quite familiar with the body roll, only performance/handling mod I have is Cupra Bushes.

I'm not an amazing driver, and don't have loads of experience, and as a result I'm worried that I'll fit a RARB and it'll show me a great time.. but then one day it'll send me spinning off the road on a roundabout.

How black and white is it? Does it hold on and on until you push to hard, (or back off to quickly) at which point it'll just completely let go at the rear, or is it more progressive, predictable and correctable?

Edited 2 September, 200916 yr by reflex88

this is the worry i have aswell, and why ive not already bought one

plus being mounted where they are, i cant see how they actually do anything ?

:popcorn:

I can't praise mine enough - car felt totally different even after just 100 yards of weaving on the road out of Jabba's workshop.

I've only had it bite once on the road and it was low speed, it was chucking it down and i was driving like a tit and to be honest i think the rear would have been mobile without it i was being that ham-footed with the right pedal..

Had one moment of surprise high speed oversteer at the Hullavington track day when i jumped off the throttle mid corner with everything loaded but and it was easy to gather it up.

After that with a bit of provoking it was possible to get a bit of rear movement however even in flat out attack mode the rear followed along perfectly.

True BRUN it's not actually an "antiroll" bar more of a hearty lower strut brace but the difference is definitely there.

Yegnold told me about his simple accelarate until you understeer pre and post fitment experiment on a large empty roundabout - without it 45 - with it 60+

from me

and should either of you be passing Cheltenham you can happily demo mine

It wont kill you. The RARB improves the cars ability to corner and makes turn in much more predictable. The key here is balance when taking corners. A lot of people lift off mid corner and that will unsettle the balance of weight distribution on the tyres. Hence the back end will lean out. But usually thats because they are travelling too fast and carrying to much speed/momentum into the corner. The back end goes light, as the weight moves to the front of the car.

I have had my RARB for 2 years plus am an advanced driver for a well known public organistion and have never had any problems with it. The back end has never gone out on me. Just go buy one and enjoy the benefits it brings, if you dont like it once fitted. You will have no problem selling to a member on here.

It's a no-brainer, fit one. I thought this had all been covered before?

Probably the best overall mod available, remaps included. You really have to provoke it to get any oversteer happening. As in a very deliberate liftoff mid-corner when you're already committed, or a Scandinavian flick attempt in an large empty, private space - that sort of thing

For the rest of the time, it just makes the little Fabia a lot nicer to drive

Steve

I'm Sold on that then!

lol, Cheers Guys!

Hope this helped you too Brun (did you know wispa Gold is returning to shelves this month?)

My driving technique is probably quite poor then, as I tend to brake before and just into the corner, then gradually feed the power back on as i come round and out.....

Is this more likely to kill me?

You've read that backwards; the no-no with a RARB is lifting off mid corner, not feeding power once the corner starts opening out.

You possibly want to get off the brakes slightly earlier, but if you're still braking as you turn in, I'd be surprised if you have the reaction delay whilst the suspension loads up that lots of people think is understeer anyway.

That's another method to getting it to oversteer actually, trail braking

But again, you have to be fairly viscous, so not like it's going to come as a surprise - that was one way of getting sideways at the high-speed corner at the Handling Limits day!

Steve

You've read that backwards; the no-no with a RARB is lifting off mid corner, not feeding power once the corner starts opening out.

Naa, I did get that, was just mentioning how I drive now to make sure no one told me it'd kill me, RARB's aside

I've just found all the helpful posts over in the advanced driving section and will give these a read

A-HA! I've been trail braking all this time and didn't even know! Wikipedia tells me it's a good thing!. Trail braking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently there's two types, and one (like you said Steve) brings on drifting... I don't do this one, I'm safe then it seems

Right, quick call to check the insurance situation (renew on the 20th) and then find my self a RARB!

Hope this helped you too Brun (did you know wispa Gold is returning to shelves this month?)

lol i knew AGES ago it was coming back

but.......which are you gonna buy lol

having fitted a RAAAARB to my Ibiza a few months ago I'm not totally sold...it certainly wasn't a revalation as many people seem to make out

I've just found all the helpful posts over in the advanced driving section and will give these a read [/url]

Scooby Chris's post on cornering and limit points is useful - http://briskoda.net/racing-advanced-driving-techniques/limit-points-cornering/81079/

And the limit point concept is also shown in pictures at Positioning for bends and corners (click the right hand arrow at the bottom of the linked page for more)

One of the best mods you can do to the Fabia's!

Damian @ DPM Performance

Awesome transformation although i want more lol.

Rear cheap nankang tires, 51psi and still not enough oversteer although it does give an awesome turn in...

Am i asking for trouble?

Kev

If you want more oversteer, try "Woosung Dark Horse" (aka Dark Spin) tyres.

But again, you have to be fairly viscous, so not like it's going to come as a surprise - that was one way of getting sideways at the high-speed corner at the Handling Limits day!

Surely you mean 'vicious'? :P

I'm still a RARB heretic, as regulars on here are tired of hearing, and to my mind, they might help even out the limits of traction between the front and the back, but I still don't see how they can induce the 'Tokyo Drift' levels of oversteer that some people seem to suggest...

Surely you mean 'vicious'? :P

I'm still a RARB heretic, as regulars on here are tired of hearing, and to my mind, they might help even out the limits of traction between the front and the back, but I still don't see how they can induce the 'Tokyo Drift' levels of oversteer that some people seem to suggest...

I could get quite progressive 4 wheel drifts going no problems on track days, although I also had an Eibach Pro kit. It was no problems to lift the opposite rear wheel either

The whole thing about lifting the inside rear wheel à la RenaultSport Clio is the aspect of RARBs / beam braces that I can believe! And of course, once you cut the traction at the back by half, the back of the car is going to start to come round until you're in a 4-wheel drift. But then I can get that too, if the road conditions are, er, 'suitable'. The thing is - and as Morrissey said, stop me if you think you've heard this one before - I don't buy people's stories of the RARB inducing true oversteer, where opposite lock is required. Perhaps induced temporarily as a result of harsh steering input in reaction to a spill of diesel or some loose gravel, but nothing like this:

I just don't see how it's possible in a front-wheel-drive car, as you can't make the rear wheels lose traction preferentially without yanking on the handbrake...

Edited 3 September, 200916 yr by ap0gee
Drive to the wrong wheels!

I still don't see how they can induce the 'Tokyo Drift' levels of oversteer that some people seem to suggest...

That's a good thing for me! I don't want Drift.. I want grip!

but.......which are you gonna buy lol

The Cheapest, otherwise I'd rather save a little more and get 312's

Perhaps people should read Sway bar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?

As for "getting drift levels of oversteer", you don't. A drift car actually understeers, and uses power to light up the rear tyres.

I just don't see how it's possible in a front-wheel-drive car, as you can't make the rear wheels lose traction preferentially without yanking on the handbrake...

It's quite possible and many of us achieve this in the mk2 golf championship. We make them handle by steering them from the rear.. High rear spring rates, high pressures and high damping means that on turn in the rear naturally looses grip. Either that or a dab of front brakes on turn in induces the slide.

Our next race is at Snetterton, perfect for first corner FWD "drifting", i'll post a video up afterwards..

Saying that, this video give you some idea.. This is Nick Porter following my car into Padock Hill at Brands. I tapped the brake midway through the corner as i'd seen dust from the gravel trap and thought a car was re-entering the circuit.

Kev

EDIT: I think this conversation may be drifting away from the initial topic of rear anti roll bars to FWD handling now though..

It's quite possible and many of us achieve this in the mk2 golf championship. We make them handle by steering them from the rear.. High rear spring rates, high pressures and high damping means that on turn in the rear naturally looses grip. Either that or a dab of front brakes on turn in induces the slide.

OK, fair enough, if you set up a track car to have significantly less grip at the rear than at the front, then I can see how you could get the rear end to break away given a sufficient shift in the weight distribution through turn-in or braking, but we're talking about tweaking a road car here...