At first I was ready to suggest that you (OP) were totally in the wrong but having read the thread it seems like a bizarre set up for a RB???

And Mr Motorcycle should have been more aware before just accelerating into you. Good luck with it

Oops double post!

Edited 18 September, 200916 yr by ScoobyChris

Thanks for the clarification...

There was no need to indicate as I was following a marked lane which ONLY exits on the left lane of the eastern road.

I'm a bit confused by this - if the lane only exits in one place, where was the motorbike heading?

Also worth mentioning that lane markings are all well and good when people can see them, but when it's busy or people are unfamiliar with the area, it may be worth considering reinforcing it with a signal.

Chris

I was on this roundabout again today, this time I was in the middle of the 3 lanes stopped at the lights....

As the road follows round, another lane appears under the motorway to make 4 lanes now! There were a line of cars in the left lane (where I was last time) and they all followed the line I took, and this time I followed the lane from the lights which travelled next to them. At the right exit, it has 2 lanes onto the eastern road, the middle lane I am in exits to the right of these lanes and the left lane I was in last time exits to the left lane on the eastern road.

The more I think about it - and especially doing it again today in another lane - I can definitely see I was in the right.

Those who know this roundabout will understand more what I am trying to explain - it's always difficult when you've never experieinced it.

There was no need to indicate as I was following a marked lane which ONLY exits on the left lane of the eastern road.

The thing to remember is that I was on the roundabout at the lights, not waiting to join it.

if you are in the right then you should be ok.

I think you must have provided a link to the wrong RB on google maps as the one i saw wasn't anywhere near a motorway slip road, looked like a mini RB in a town?

What a bizarre setup! :confused:

Only thing I can think is that the bike thought he was further ahead of you than he thought, didn't shoulder check when they were beginning to move in, moved over anyway and made contact...

In any case, when it comes down to it, the biker should be using the lanes correctly like everyone else, rather than coming in between cars. No?

Steve

I know I posted the wrong RB, but to be hones, it has totally changed to what the satellite view now show's anyway.

The motorbike was at my 4 o'clock when I last saw him, then just whumped into my door...He must have really opened it up to hit me as hard as he did.

I'm glad things are starting to make a bit more sense as the topic has gone on...It's difficult to convey by text, but I've been driving for 15 years, an ex ambulance driver and this is the only 'prang' I have ever been involved with! I know I was in the right! :P

Looking closely at the RB, I'd say you were wrong.

The RB has 4 exits, left, A27 west, eastern rd south, A27 east.

As per the highway codes rules on multi lanes on an RB approach you should have followed:

Left lane - to go north on eastern rd (2 lane exit for traffic from your right)

Middle lane - A27 east (left most lane after Eastern rd exit)

Right lane - closet to RB, becomes left 2 lanes after A27 east exit for eastern rd south, or use r/h 2 lanes for A27 east.

If you missed a turning, you'd then merge to the correct lane as you go round the RB.

The markings are poor, and mean FA IMHO. The follow RB shows similar marking, yet if you followed your example that caused your accident, you'd be flattened by everything else on the RB!

A3044, Surrey, United Kingdom - Google Maps

Middle lane from southern perimeter rd going to A3044 (exit 3) you would think that you could follow the road round and be in lane 1 as you pass exit 2 A3113 (towards J14 M25). But you'd be foolish to try it! Trust me.

OP, you're in the right (from your description). The motorcyclist was in the wrong lane. I know that roundabout very well and have been to many accidents there.

Good luck!

Looking closely at the RB, I'd say you were wrong.

The RB has 4 exits, left, A27 west, eastern rd south, A27 east.

As per the highway codes rules on multi lanes on an RB approach you should have followed:

Left lane - to go north on eastern rd (2 lane exit for traffic from your right)

Middle lane - A27 east (left most lane after Eastern rd exit)

Right lane - closet to RB, becomes left 2 lanes after A27 east exit for eastern rd south, or use r/h 2 lanes for A27 east.

If you missed a turning, you'd then merge to the correct lane as you go round the RB.

The markings are poor, and mean FA IMHO. The follow RB shows similar marking, yet if you followed your example that caused your accident, you'd be flattened by everything else on the RB!

A3044, Surrey, United Kingdom - Google Maps

Middle lane from southern perimeter rd going to A3044 (exit 3) you would think that you could follow the road round and be in lane 1 as you pass exit 2 A3113 (towards J14 M25). But you'd be foolish to try it! Trust me.

No, I was already on the RB stopped at the lights at he middle, I was not moving on...where your comments would be true. I missed no turning, I was following the lane and the markings on the road to take me to the eastern road south...along with the other drivers that followed after..

At the end of the day, the black and white fact is that I was following the lanes painted, he crashed into me, and all subsequent traffic also followed the same route I was taking.

I think you are ok as well. I drive around several roundabouts on the way to work where the left lane is allowed to follow all the way around to the third exit, and this causes confusion to unfamilliar drivers most mornings. If you follow and obey the road markings then all is well, until someone else decides they will try something else.

I also negotiate a roundabout where at the end of the slip road, the left lane is for turning left only, and the right lane can also turn left or go round the roundabout.

This setup is becoming far more common on congested junctions to ease traffic flow by allowing traffic to use more of the lanes than the highway code would otherwise suggest. That said however, before they put traffic lights on these roundabouts I use there was very little congestion.

Looking closely at the RB, I'd say you were wrong.

Thanks for sharing your view!

But as the OP was an ambulance driver, a serving traffic copper & another local poster have also agreed with the OP! I'd be inclined to follow the view of locals that know the site concerned!

Thanks for sharing your view but your post was clearly a fail.

Amended your quote there

I do not know the RB in question, so take my post with a (large) pinch of salt, but my view is this *may* go 50/50 on the following basis:

1. Motorcyclist is clearly wrongly positioned to take the intended exit

2. You are wrongly positioned to take your exit

Despite the markings, the Highway Code hints at the left lane being of use only to take the next available exit. To continue going round, an "appropriate" lane should be chosen which, in conjunction with taking the right one to continue going round, could be interpreted as meaning take middle /right lane, and change to left between the last exit and before your intended exit.

Obviously, real world scenarios are *very* different to the highway code, and tbh, I don't think the highway code is explicit enough.

Also, as there are markings on the road, motorcyclist is doubly wrong because according to paragraph 133 of the HC it could be construed his manoeuvre was reckless as:

1. He failed to spot you in his mirrors or when sideglancing (if he even checked!)

2. You would've been forced to alter speed and/or course to avoid a collision with him

Now, I'm a biker too and, as most of us, guilty of sinning on the odd occasion, but this guy took a chance, lost it, and should take it like a man.

I had a similar accident once when someone crossed in front of me to turn right. He admitted to not having seen me, but his insurance company contested it, with ridiculous claims that I was overtaking (on a double carriageway with a central reservation, and an opening on it to turn right - also, right past a 30mph speed camera!). My insurance company didn't want to take it up and was ok with it going 50/50. I had to involve a no-win, no-fee solicitor to get them to cough up. I successfully used the paragraph above in my defence as had he not changed lane and forced me to swerve and brake, the accident wouldn't have happened.

Good luck with getting this sorted and keep us posted!

Highway code isn't exact law, but the RTA can be applied to parts of it.

If what you said is right, then all roundabouts with lanes are wrong?

Highway code isn't exact law, but the RTA can be applied to parts of it.

If what you said is right, then all roundabouts with lanes are wrong?

Many have confusing markings, and as puma25uk says, common sense along with HWC guidance should be used. Which was my point with my posts and the link to the Heathrow roundabout.

If what you said is right, then all roundabouts with lanes are wrong?

No, that's a misinterpretation of what I said. Lanes exist to

a) regulate traffic and clearly delimit sections of the road.

aid traffic flow by providing guidelines as to road position depending on your intended actions

In this particular case, rules exist for and to safeguard you should anyone "invade your space". So lanes serve a purpose, and there are rules saying you should not take the left lane except to take the next available exit, same you shouldn't be on the inside one and go across all lanes to take an exit you were incorrectly positioned for.

Left lane use, imho, excludes its use to pass everyone on the inside because you're taking the 2nd or 3rd exit, which btw, I have no reason to believe is what the OP was doing!

For example, take a typical roundabout at a motorway junction. Usually there are two accesses perpendicular to each side of the motorway. Let's say the RB is not painted (no lanes), but is wide enough to hold two (in fact, all entry/exits have two lanes leaning to the RB). I have had many instances where I'm on the right side of the road, waiting to turn right (3rd exit of the RB), and some numpty on the left side, turning left at the 2nd exit, decides to cut it up (and me) and straddle "my space" and causing me to brake. If I was ever in an accident there, I would have trouble explaining that the other driver cut me up as I was on the right to continue going round. By having lanes, and the guidelines they provide, it would be far easier to establish a responsible party.

For those who know the area, one such RB is the one at Junction 9 on the A1(M)

Hope the above makes sense, English is a second language to me

No, what I'm saying is that some roundabouts, the lane markings would contradict the highway code so saying "always do what the highway code says on roundabouts" is not really correct. Big roundabouts have lane markings because they are confusing.

This is all pointless anyway, because the OP was following his lane and got crashed into bike moving lanes directly into him.

End of, really!

Many have confusing markings, and as puma25uk says, common sense along with HWC guidance should be used. Which was my point with my posts and the link to the Heathrow roundabout.

The markings are there to be followed, which doesn't excuse the biker from riding into the OP.

Heathrow? Who's talking about Heathrow?

Your posts in this thread seemed to have the intention of deliberately antagonising the OP, and to cast doubt on his ability to claim zero responsibility for the crash. As other's have said, professional drivers who know the roundabout personally have said that from the description, the OP was in the right so why are you trying to say otherwise, with no knowledge of the actual junction?

The markings are there to be followed, which doesn't excuse the biker from riding into the OP.

Heathrow? Who's talking about Heathrow?

Your posts in this thread seemed to have the intention of deliberately antagonising the OP, and to cast doubt on his ability to claim zero responsibility for the crash. As other's have said, professional drivers who know the roundabout personally have said that from the description, the OP was in the right so why are you trying to say otherwise, with no knowledge of the actual junction?

I mentioned Heathrow, as it has a similar multi lane approach and lane markers.

The OP's post reads that he left the m'way, and remained in the left lane all the way around.

Looking at the aerial pic on google, it's quite clear which lanes are 'appropriate' for which junction.

There will always be local unwritten rules that fly against the HWC and proper lane discipline. Round here it's a slip road that people on a 3 lane stretch use the middle lane to take a junction, and bring the whole road to a standstill.

The HWC is there so you know the rules where ever you are in the UK. You shouldnt need local knowledge to be able to use the road network at any given location.

He also mentions that the lanes are different from what they appear on that picture

He also mentions that the lanes are different from what they appear on that picture

So lane one of the slip now cuts the 2 lanes heading north on the A2030?

If the RB is a notorious accident point, as locals claim, then either the RB doesnot adhere to HWC, and/or the line markings are simply wrong/confusing.

As I say, try following the lanes on the heathrow RB as I posted and see how long it takes to crash. I was following the lines wont cut it with insurance firms, who would quite rightly IMO, point to the HWC on roundabout use.

So if half of the people using it stick to the lines, and the other half use the HWC rules, how long before the crash, and who decides who is right and wrong?

IMO, if EVERYONE follows the lines that are clearly marked, then everyone is doing the same thing and reducing the risk.

We all know that barely anyone picks up a highway code after they have passed their test.

The amount of people using fog lights in daylight, or not indicating, or tailgaiting etc etc is living proof.

This is getting a bit too convoluted...If I took you to the exact point where we set off from mid way round at the lights and followed the lane to its only exit right, it would be so clear. It's easy to cast dispersion and doubt if not actually experiencing the route...But it really is simple:

Lights....Lane...Exit.

Well at least the post has generated a load of replies!

My insurance company seem to think he was in the wrong..Especially when he said 'Stupid accident, I can't believe I did that!' This comment may change though, methinks...

IMO, if EVERYONE follows the lines that are clearly marked, then everyone is doing the same thing and reducing the risk.

The problem (imho) with lane and paint markings on the road is that if you're unfamiliar with the area, you need to be able to see it to know which lane to be in. This is often difficult when traffic is heavy and the markings are obscured until you're on top of them.

I think I might take my friend who's training for an advanced test down to the OP's roundabout and see how she copes

Chris

I think I might take my friend who's training for an advanced test down to the OP's roundabout and see how she copes

Chris

Hehe, Good luck with that, Chris