2.0 Tfsi cylinder head problems...

[L8 JDO]

Hi All,

I was looking through an old copy of Auto Express today (maybe 2 months old) and there was an article about buying a used Golf GTI mk5. One of the buyer beware notes was about cylinder head problems from previous owners not using super unleaded petrol. Seeing as the Octy and Golf are blood relatives I just wondered if any of you had heard of this problem on Skoda's, I havent as yet?

Out of interest what is the link between using 95ron & 98ron and the problem described?

ATB, Jon.

[martziniuk]

Do you know what sort of cylinder head problems they were?

[gregozedobe]

I haven't heard of anything happening on a regular basis (in either VWs or Skodas). IIRC the 2.0 TFSI engine should run on 95 octane petrol without any damage (but possibly reduced power and slightly higher fuel consumption).

Excessive wear on the follower for the high pressure fuel pump (and then the cam), now that I have read a lot about ;(

[vRSLen]

Running on 95 Ron should cause no problems.

[shark_90]

I think they're referring to the tumble flaps in the inlet manifold sticking and failing to function properly. Given that the fuel never goes anywhere near the inlet manifold I can't see how the fuel grade can make any difference however I always advise people to use proper fuel (read: Shell V-Power).

[bw2309]

NO FSi engine should be run regularly on 95RON fuel. ALWAYS ALWAYS use 98RON min, SHell V-Power the best!!

The FSi system will not operate in stratified mode on 95RON and due to the high comression/lean burn cycle, the engine can incur damage of 95RON is used. When the first FSi's came out we had to replace many engines due to incorrect fuel. The carbon build up on the pistons gets really hot and burns through the piston crown or valves in the head!!!

This is such a big problem that now VAG do not even allow the new engines to run stratified as they cannot rely on their sales staff to MAKE sure poepole know how important it is to use 98RON. Now, they are still direct injection but the rest of the system is redundant.

If you run on V-Power your car will give around 2-3mpg more than if on 95, therefore costing the same as using crap fuel that will blow ya car up!!!!!

PLEASE take heed of this!!!!!

[martziniuk]

NO FSi engine should be run regularly on 95RON fuel. ALWAYS ALWAYS use 98RON min, SHell V-Power the best!!

The FSi system will not operate in stratified mode on 95RON and due to the high comression/lean burn cycle, the engine can incur damage of 95RON is used. When the first FSi's came out we had to replace many engines due to incorrect fuel. The carbon build up on the pistons gets really hot and burns through the piston crown or valves in the head!!!

This is such a big problem that now VAG do not even allow the new engines to run stratified as they cannot rely on their sales staff to MAKE sure poepole know how important it is to use 98RON. Now, they are still direct injection but the rest of the system is redundant.

If you run on V-Power your car will give around 2-3mpg more than if on 95, therefore costing the same as using crap fuel that will blow ya car up!!!!!

PLEASE take heed of this!!!!!

Very informative thank you very much .

I found this on another forum about the Fsi engine is this true ?

"Firstly, they inject fuel directly in to the combustion chamber as opposed to the intake manifold, therefore giving much greater control of the combustion process.

Secondly, typical FSI engines have two engine modes which are known as Homogonous and Stratified. The first is used when the engine is under load and is akin to how most "normal" petrol engines work, the second is used when the engine is not under load (usually less than half maxium engine speed), and basically works by creating a small pocket of fuel/air around the sparkplug whilst the rest of the cylinder contains just air. This means that less fuel is required without causing a missfire due to insufficient fuel/air mixture.

Make sense?

Oh, and I say "typical FSI engines" above because FSI engines such as the one fitted to the new Golf GTI don't use the Stratified charge mode at all, so in essence they are FHI engines."

Edited 25 September, 2009 by martziniuk

[Dr Zoidberg]

NO FSi engine should be run regularly on 95RON fuel. ALWAYS ALWAYS use 98RON min, SHell V-Power the best!!

The FSi system will not operate in stratified mode on 95RON and due to the high comression/lean burn cycle, the engine can incur damage of 95RON is used. When the first FSi's came out we had to replace many engines due to incorrect fuel. The carbon build up on the pistons gets really hot and burns through the piston crown or valves in the head!!!

This is such a big problem that now VAG do not even allow the new engines to run stratified as they cannot rely on their sales staff to MAKE sure poepole know how important it is to use 98RON. Now, they are still direct injection but the rest of the system is redundant.

If you run on V-Power your car will give around 2-3mpg more than if on 95, therefore costing the same as using crap fuel that will blow ya car up!!!!!

PLEASE take heed of this!!!!!

I'd be interested to see what the owners manual says on this subject. Dealers certainly aren't saying that if you use standard unleaded your car will blow up and I doubt VAG do either.

[shark_90]

I'd be interested to see what the owners manual says on this subject. Dealers certainly aren't saying that if you use standard unleaded your car will blow up and I doubt VAG do either.

What a dealer says and what a proper mechanic says are often two different things

[martziniuk]

What do they do in the states where they only have low octane fuel?

[shark_90]

They don't have low octane fuel, it's just measured differently. IIRC 93US=98UK ish.

[vRS Carl]

I highly highly doubt 95 octane will blow your engine up.

If it did Skoda/VW/Audi/Seat would have a mahoosive bill to foot.

It clearly states in the Fuel Filler flap to use 95Ron minimum. So they would be liable for every single car engine that "blew up" for using low grade fuel.

Carl:thumbup:

[skodakid]

Stratified mode is only allowed by the ECU when it detects high octane fuel (presumably by using a knock sensor or by measuring combustion temperature). It used to be a big selling feature of the FSI engines until they started failing in droves. I think the stratified mode has now quietly disappeared and been conveniently forgotten - pity , beacuse it had the potential for fantastically low fuel consumption.

Incidently FSI stood for fuel stratified injection........

[shark_90]

I highly highly doubt 95 octane will blow your engine up.

If it did Skoda/VW/Audi/Seat would have a mahoosive bill to foot.

It clearly states in the Fuel Filler flap to use 95Ron minimum. So they would be liable for every single car engine that "blew up" for using low grade fuel.

Carl:thumbup:

Mine clearly states 98RON.

And after it's out of warranty, they don't care. Given that the manual and fuel filler cap states 98RON there's the get out clause for them not to pay out if 95RON is used for an extended period.

The engine is designed for 98RON, simple as that.

[martziniuk]

My manual states engines which need 98 Ron can also be run on 95 Ron but it will result in a slight loss in performance. In exceptional circumstances 91 Ron maybe used but refuel with 98 or 95 Ron asap.

[Micky 32]

NO FSi engine should be run regularly on 95RON fuel. ALWAYS ALWAYS use 98RON min, SHell V-Power the best!!

The FSi system will not operate in stratified mode on 95RON and due to the high comression/lean burn cycle, the engine can incur damage of 95RON is used. When the first FSi's came out we had to replace many engines due to incorrect fuel. The carbon build up on the pistons gets really hot and burns through the piston crown or valves in the head!!!

This is such a big problem that now VAG do not even allow the new engines to run stratified as they cannot rely on their sales staff to MAKE sure poepole know how important it is to use 98RON. Now, they are still direct injection but the rest of the system is redundant.

If you run on V-Power your car will give around 2-3mpg more than if on 95, therefore costing the same as using crap fuel that will blow ya car up!!!!!

PLEASE take heed of this!!!!!

Doesn't add up to be honest. VW state( even sticker on the fuel cap) Min 95 ron. Ireland only has 95 ron fuel but some staitons now sell 99 octane due to E5 fuel like tesco petrol but only recently. GTI's etc have been in Ireland since 05 and i have never heard of failures due to 95 fuel.

[vRS Carl]

Mine clearly states 98RON.

And after it's out of warranty, they don't care. Given that the manual and fuel filler cap states 98RON there's the get out clause for them not to pay out if 95RON is used for an extended period.

The engine is designed for 98RON, simple as that.

What year is your Car Shark?

Mine is a MY2007 and has a Sticker that Says 95Ron as on the picture below. So if my engine blows up through incorrect fuel use (i only use V-Power anyway) i will be suing

[martziniuk]

Doesn't add up to be honest. VW state( even sticker on the fuel cap) Min 95 ron. Ireland only has 95 ron fuel but some staitons now sell 99 octane due to E5 fuel like tesco petrol but only recently. GTI's etc have been in Ireland since 05 and i have never heard of failures due to 95 fuel.

It is a known fact looking around the net that using low octane fuel can cause a build up of carbon deposits on the pistons and valves, especially on the FSI engines. This causes heat build up and ain't good, especially if thrashed!

[shark_90]

Mine is a 55 plate registered 29/01/06.

Fuel cap sticker says:

98 Super Plus/Super Premium

[vRS Carl]

Wonder why they changed it then :confused: as mine is a later car than yours:confused:

Would have thought it would have been the other way round unless the ECU has been updated to take into account 95 fuel

Carl:thumbup:

[JimF]

I have always been told by specialists/ tuners to use min 97ron on a turbo car and it's absolutely imperative with a modified one.

Thrashing about regularly on 95ron could run it hot, induce pre ignition and pop the top of a piston or two.

Only what i've been told by the 'experts'

Jim

[bw2309]

Doesn't add up to be honest. VW state( even sticker on the fuel cap) Min 95 ron. Ireland only has 95 ron fuel but some staitons now sell 99 octane due to E5 fuel like tesco petrol but only recently. GTI's etc have been in Ireland since 05 and i have never heard of failures due to 95 fuel.

May not add up but I am only trying to help and having worked for Audi and then being on my own doing VAG cars ever since that I have seen MANY failures due to poor quality and low RON fuel and I still am. This effectes ALL FSi equipped engines.

The reason the stickers on later cars in different is either due to the fact that very late cars do not run stratified so the fuel is slightly less important or if it is a car from somewhere like MotorPoint they often source cars specced for other countries. These will be set up different and allow 95 RON use but it is still VERY important to use as good quality fuel as poss and I would always advise Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate whatever the sticker says. This is even more important if the car is remapped.

[sherlocks VRS]

evening everyone mine is a 57 plate and it states a minimum octane rating of 95 ron , the engine is designed to run on either 95 or 98 no engine damage should occur if run on 95 as the engine ecu moniters timming, temp, fuelling etc and backs things off if needed , as for stratisfied fuelling its not fitted basicaly because of peoples ignorance as to how it works and what you need to do and what to run it on. just spoke to my cousin whos got a octy tfsi on a 06 plate which has got 96000 miles on the clock and he says he has only ever used 95 ron from new and never had a prob

[mr_awol]

My 06 VRS is poorly, apparently with this problem. Any experience of Skoda paying for it? I'm not impressed as the car has done less than 40k and has always been run on super - generally 99 ron.

TBH i'm looking for a massive contribution from Skoda on this, or i will be making a lot of noise.

[GoneToBeemer]

Mine is the newer TSI engine, and mine states 95 RON minimum stanadard.

I mostly run it on Shell 95, but every so often i run a tank of V-power through it.

I can't see any problem with that to be honest :S