Remap on near-standard car - Worth it?

[dlloyd]

Really tempted at some point in the near future to get my Octy vRS Mk1 remapped. At the moment i have upgraded the handling with Koni FSD's, H&R springs and superpro polybushes (all money well spent), but engine-wise I have done nothing other than put a Forge 006 dump valve on.

Not got lots of cash to spend nowadays. Would like to get the car remapped though. Do you reckon it's worth it without any more engine mods, or do I really need a few bits and bobs first (e.g. TIP / turbo back exhaust / FMIC)?

[KenONeill]

It's up to you, but the biggest "bang for bucks" mod short of a complete rework (uprated turbo, FMIC, CAI kit and free-flow turbo-back zorst plus a map) is a remap. Some places will rework a custom map for reduced rates when you add bits like a zorst or CAI.

[shark_90]

It's absolutely worth it as standard. Many cars that I remap are standard with no other mods, you'd be surprised at the amount of people who aren't into physically modifying cars (in the traditional sense of the word) who still want a remap.

[JimF]

Absolutely go for it. You have actually been very sensible and sorted the handling out 1st whereas a lot of people go for more power first ( me! ).

The difference it will make is significant and as stated you can go back and have a custom remap to make the most of any hardware you add later.

If the car is nice and healthy think 30+ bhp and 50+ lb/ft for around £400 upwards.

Happy days

Jim:thumbup:

[skinnyman]

The answer is a definite YES! It transforms the car and puts a smile on your face every time you drive the car.

I see you're in Hull. If you can do the hour over the Wolds, give this chap a call and say where you got his number from.

ChipBoost - Car and Tractor Tuning

I had one of his generic maps on the car for a bit and it certainly changed things. He's a really nice bloke and is more than willing to talk you through things and what to expect.

In the end though I stumped up for a custom map with RS tuning in Leeds. This was purely down to my personal preference on the map and how it suited my car and because I could afford it at the time. The difference in the maps is noticeable, but if it is worth the extra over what I paid, that's down to the individual I think.

Either way, they're worth it.

[bond007]

It's absolutely worth it as standard. Many cars that I remap are standard with no other mods, you'd be surprised at the amount of people who aren't into physically modifying cars (in the traditional sense of the word) who still want a remap.

shark do you have a garage then?

[shark_90]

shark do you have a garage then?

I have a tuning company, yes (see signature)

[bond007]

probably gave it away! just thinking about a re-map thats all and i see your local

[shark_90]

probably gave it away! just thinking about a re-map thats all and i see your local

Why not pop down to the meet at the end of the month in Mansfield and we can have a chat about it over a pint?

[bond007]

didnt notice that meet might have a whizz down the m1

[dlloyd]

The answer is a definite YES! It transforms the car and puts a smile on your face every time you drive the car.

I see you're in Hull. If you can do the hour over the Wolds, give this chap a call and say where you got his number from.

ChipBoost - Car and Tractor Tuning

I had one of his generic maps on the car for a bit and it certainly changed things. He's a really nice bloke and is more than willing to talk you through things and what to expect.

In the end though I stumped up for a custom map with RS tuning in Leeds. This was purely down to my personal preference on the map and how it suited my car and because I could afford it at the time. The difference in the maps is noticeable, but if it is worth the extra over what I paid, that's down to the individual I think.

Either way, they're worth it.

[dlloyd]

I reckon I shall be going to Ricci Concept for an O.CT remap with the xmas money! I think these are the same maps as Forge do (iPro?).

[Guest westallc]

I reckon I shall be going to Ricci Concept for an O.CT remap with the xmas money! I think these are the same maps as Forge do (iPro?).

dont just jump at the nearest tuner !! can have prob do some research and find customers that have had the map and see what they thought. find out what he thinks power wise etc etc

this foum has had most mappers on there cars so should be able to see if there any good..

p.s never heard of above!!!

[dlloyd]

dont just jump at the nearest tuner !! can have prob do some research and find customers that have had the map and see what they thought. find out what he thinks power wise etc etc

this foum has had most mappers on there cars so should be able to see if there any good..

p.s never heard of above!!!

Ricci Concept have been looking after my car for a few years and seem to be very good (Audi, Skoda, VW, Porsche specialists). My logic is that because they look after and MOT my car, if their map causes issues, they have to solve it and I won't get into garage ping pong as to who's fault things are. I've been looking on the web and O.CT seem to be a reputable tuning company from Austria (www.oct-tuning.com).

My other alternative is a new place that's just opened up in Hull that does Revo software. Tempting, but expensive!

[Roker]

I may be a bit old fashioned here, but if a re-map is so good, why does the manufacturer not set it this way in the first place, when new.

[shark_90]

Mainly so the car can be sold in all markets with varied environmental conditions and fuel grades/qualities and still perform to the specified output.

[iep]

As a further response to Roker's question. Part of the reason the power and rorque are limited by the manufacturer is that they are set to a level that all engines, gearboxes etc rolling off the production line can definitely tolerate.

With engines and transmission, like any manufactured item, there will be variation in the final product. One overall variable that will change is durability. With this in mind, the max bhp and torque will have been chosen so that even the less durable engines/transmissions built (on the oustkirts of the gausian distribution) will still remain reliable over a reasonable lifespan. Given this, the vast majority of engines produced on the line will be capable of running reliably with far higher bhp and torque figures. However, the odd one will not.

This is the lottery you play when you remap a car. 99% of the time you'll be fine (with perhaps a slight reduction in reliable miles expected from the engine and transmission). However, the odd unlcuky punter will have an engine or transmission that falls on the outskirts of the curve and simply cannot tolerate the higher demands placed on it (read gearbox/head etc failure).

The 1.8T engine is an interesting case study here. In its first incarnations it was limitted to 150bhp in the Golf GTI and only 147bhp in the first Audi's to use the engine. As time passed and more data was available on durability, VW/AUDI group were more confident in the basic block and were able to start squeezing more and more power from it by altering the mapping and adding larger (or even extra) turbos. This is typical of any manufacturing process where confidence increases as more and more of the products are built.

Just another data point for those considering a re-map.

iep

[dan_the_v8man]

First mod I do when I get a car is a Stage 1 map and brake pads. Done nothing else to the car other than a Stage 1 map (still waiting for my pads to turn up) and it totally transforms the car

Picked my latest car up on a Saturday, the day after I was at Shark Performance having it mapped. I know of people that drive straight out the dealers with a brand new car and go have it mapped before they get it home

[Roker]

As a further response to Roker's question. Part of the reason the power and rorque are limited by the manufacturer is that they are set to a level that all engines, gearboxes etc rolling off the production line can definitely tolerate.

With engines and transmission, like any manufactured item, there will be variation in the final product. One overall variable that will change is durability. With this in mind, the max bhp and torque will have been chosen so that even the less durable engines/transmissions built (on the oustkirts of the gausian distribution) will still remain reliable over a reasonable lifespan. Given this, the vast majority of engines produced on the line will be capable of running reliably with far higher bhp and torque figures. However, the odd one will not.

This is the lottery you play when you remap a car. 99% of the time you'll be fine (with perhaps a slight reduction in reliable miles expected from the engine and transmission). However, the odd unlcuky punter will have an engine or transmission that falls on the outskirts of the curve and simply cannot tolerate the higher demands placed on it (read gearbox/head etc failure).

The 1.8T engine is an interesting case study here. In its first incarnations it was limitted to 150bhp in the Golf GTI and only 147bhp in the first Audi's to use the engine. As time passed and more data was available on durability, VW/AUDI group were more confident in the basic block and were able to start squeezing more and more power from it by altering the mapping and adding larger (or even extra) turbos. This is typical of any manufacturing process where confidence increases as more and more of the products are built.

Just another data point for those considering a re-map.

iep

[Roker]

iep. That makes some sense, but why did they not design the gearbox etc to take a higher manufacturer spec. so that they can map the car for best performance?

that is what sells cars. I cannot see the manufacturer having say, a different basic gearbox design for all models. So a 1.4 should be able to be remapped or set to a higher spec relative to engine size than a remap on a 2.0 ltr. I also suspect mph would be an issue with a standard model.

[chicken_eyebrow]

You have to ask yourself whether you want to get onto the slippery slope or not.

A generic remap is fine... until you have a go in someones car with a custom map...

Then you'll be buying exhaust bits, TIP, FMIC and all that jazz and having a custom map

....Then you get into someones car with a big turbo conversion...

It never ends!!!

[Jon_VRS]

iep. That makes some sense, but why did they not design the gearbox etc to take a higher manufacturer spec. so that they can map the car for best performance?

that is what sells cars. I cannot see the manufacturer having say, a different basic gearbox design for all models. So a 1.4 should be able to be remapped or set to a higher spec relative to engine size than a remap on a 2.0 ltr. I also suspect mph would be an issue with a standard model.

Well in the Octavia vRS case it sits at the bottom of the VAG tree for the performance models. There is no way they would want the vRS to compete with the GTI/R32 or the S3.

[iep]

Hi Roker, in fact, the gearbox for the 1.4 is very different to the 1.8T. Additionally, the S3, Cupra etc, while sharing the same block as the vRS, do use the stronger 6 speed box.

So, in short, why do they not design everything to a higher spec? Cost. All elements in the chain are costed down to the best possible trade off of durability/performance/cost.

Jon_VRS, interesting to note that, at time of first release, the VRS was 30 BHP more powerful than the top spec Golf GTI.

Cheers,

iep

[PastyBoy]

isn't a lot of it also down to reliability and expected life cycle?

An engine mapped and developed to it's maximum and delivering full potential my survive just a quarter of the distance of one operating well within it's comfort zone will - say 50k rather than 200k

Which is why F1 engines blow up much more regularly than road car engines!

As such if your willing to take the realtively minor risk the potential is there to be tapped into. And as long as the work is done by a known and sensible tuner (rather than a guy you met down the pub with a laptop) it shouldn't make your engine internals attack the underside of your bonnet!

All of which is why my Fabia makes 47 more bhp than when it left the factory!

[iep]

Hi Pastyboy, Absolutely, I don't think anyone would argue that extracting the most possible power from an engine (and then regularly using that power) would shorten the lifespan of the engine. And, a good tuner will ensure that the lifespan/performance tradeoff is minimised (giving max improvement for minimum lifespan reduction).

However, my point is that this will work well for 99% of engines but there will be some 'out-liers' from the production process whose lifespan will be much more afffected by a remap than others (even a custom remap). Many people have reported minor issues after a remap (coil packs failing etc) and this has been explained away as components near their limit/lifespan being the first to fail under the increased load. In many cases, these components may have lasted far longer if the engine had been kept at factory spec. Now, imagine that componenet is piston ring rather than a coilpack and you'll see what I am getting at. Componenets are designed down ot a cost to meet a given spec. By remapping, we are, in some cases, pushing these components beyond that spec.

All I am saying is that there are risks associated with remapping and people need to be aware of them.

Having said all that, a remap for my vRS is still mighty tempting!

iep