Secondly the roads I drive on are small, slippery and icy more often than not.

If your talking winter performance, the general consensus here is:

Ice - choose a studded tyre (I know... it's not legal in the UK)

Packed Snow - choose a friction tyre

Ice + Friction Tyre is a terrible combination, when I've driven it the feeling isn't much different from a summer tyre on ice.

I don't want to argue with you , it's just that I couldn't let your post pass without offering my input. At least for me, driving all year in Bekrshire on an all-season tyres would seem crazy.

If you really want a winter tyre, buy an extra set of rims and run a winter tyre for the season, but get back to normal tyres for the other 10+ months of the year

I've already posted this once today, but I'm going to post it again in response to your statement 'Ice + Friction Tyre is a terrible combination'

That's a studless winter tyre absolutely destroying summer and all season tyres on an ice rink.

Just cancelled the order as had an email from mytyres requiring me to fax them a copy of a utility bill. I asked them for their justification and the response made no sense at all.

So my try pneu-online now. This shouldn't be so complicated

I just ordered 2 with no such issue, but then I had it delivered to a tyre centre rather than me.

I've already posted this once today, but I'm going to post it again in response to your statement 'Ice + Friction Tyre is a terrible combination'

Perhaps I should have added, "a terrible combination in comparison to studded winter tyres".

Yes that video (which is trying to sell those tyres :rubchin: ) shows a "big difference" between summer and friction tyres. But it is looking at those two tyres in isolation.

If you look at my comment, I was looking at 3 tyres and comparing them:

winter studded

winter friction

summer

If you did the icerink test with those three tyres, the studded would be a clear winnner, and the friction and summer would both come in a long way behind, albeit the friction tyre would be slightly ahead of the summer tyre.

Scores might be something like this for ice performance:

winter studded 90 points

winter friction 20 points

summer 15 points

That was the point I was making, friction tyre work great on snow, but on ice we consider them a poor performer, hence, "ice + friction tyre is a terrible combination".

Do you see what I'm getting at?

I've been told by a Norwegian that the newer winter friction tyres actually suck the tyre onto the ice providing some level of grip compared to summer tyres. Apparently due to these sipes, the ice grip is much improved.

I agree studded tyres would be much better on ice, however we don't have that option in the UK.

As such I think a winter tyre means you are better prepared for the changeable conditions than relying on wide, summer performance tyres.

I know a couple of guys who use friction tyres in the winter. When it's packed snow, they love it. If it's ice, they're tip-toeing around the corners still.

I don't want to come across as a know-it-all, but I do drive 7 months a year on winter tyres. Would I enjoy them in the summer? Absolutely no way! The top quality ones (Nokian being a good example), use a very soft rubber compound in order to get some grip on ice (we actually change to soft-rubbered winter shoes here for the same reason).

The tyre tread is so soft that you can easily bend it with your fingers, and of course you can imagine the wallowing you do when you go around corners. There are some "friction" tyres which don't use so hard a compound, but again these don't offer as much on the ice.

But perhaps my final point is that (IMHO) it's important to understand that friction tyres are no magic bullet for ice driving. If it's icey, you still need to slow down drastically, and no amount of friction rubber will save you :(

I know a couple of guys who use friction tyres in the winter. When it's packed snow, they love it. If it's ice, they're tip-toeing around the corners still.

I don't want to come across as a know-it-all, but I do drive 7 months a year on winter tyres. Would I enjoy them in the summer? Absolutely no way! The top quality ones (Nokian being a good example), use a very soft rubber compound in order to get some grip on ice (we actually change to soft-rubbered winter shoes here for the same reason).

The tyre tread is so soft that you can easily bend it with your fingers, and of course you can imagine the wallowing you do when you go around corners. There are some "friction" tyres which don't use so hard a compound, but again these don't offer as much on the ice.

But perhaps my final point is that (IMHO) it's important to understand that friction tyres are no magic bullet for ice driving. If it's icey, you still need to slow down drastically, and no amount of friction rubber will save you :(

I totally agree with you that friction tyres will not be a magic bullet. As you say, without a stud you're not going to get much friction between the car tyre and the slipper ice surface.

All I'm trying to say is that dedicated summer performance tyres on ice are useless.

So by your example summer performance = 5, touring summer tyres on ice = 10, winter tyres on ice=20-25 and studded=90

I also agree they are certainly no magic bullet and you have to be careful, but I'd rather have something that was better in the cold conditions, snow, slush etc over winter and a small bit better on ice than summer tyres.

It can be the difference between just making it and not.

I agree with you, something is certainly better than nothing if you're likely to encounter snow/slush during winter.

If you really want a winter tyre, buy an extra set of rims and run a winter tyre for the season, but get back to normal tyres for the other 10+ months of the year

My winters are going on at the start of Dec I think.

In case anybody stumbles on this thread, I did in the end get the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons, and have had many opportunities to test them out in the white stuff before Christmas and now, and they are brilliant so far. Certainly feel a lot more comfortable with them than with the Dunlops Sport! At the moment would happily re-invest in a set if I needed to.

MPG is down by 1-2, but has been gradually improving.

Edited 8 January, 201016 yr by scouter2

In case anybody stumbles on this thread, I did in the end get the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons, and have had many opportunities to test them out in the white stuff before Christmas and now, and they are brilliant so far. Certainly feel a lot more comfortable with them than with the Dunlops Sport! At the moment would happily re-invest in a set if I needed to.

MPG is down by 1-2, but has been gradually improving.

Thanks for the feedback scouter, much appreciated.

Went down the Nokian winter tyre on steel rim route myself, as the 17" Goodyear Excellence summer tyres supplied with the Yeti were obviously new but useless in compacted snow & ice.

TP

In case anybody stumbles on this thread, I did in the end get the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons, and have had many opportunities to test them out in the white stuff before Christmas and now, and they are brilliant so far. Certainly feel a lot more comfortable with them than with the Dunlops Sport! At the moment would happily re-invest in a set if I needed to.

MPG is down by 1-2, but has been gradually improving.

What size of the Goodyear 4 Seasons did you have put on your Scout??

I am looking at some for mine as I have heard good things!

I have been using Vredestein Wintrac Extreme tyres (just finishing my second set at 70k miles). Mileage has been excellent at 20k plus(better than original bridgestones). Have not noticed any summer side effects although have not driven long distances in the summer in warmer climates(I live in Scotland!). Snow grip only limited by ground clearance. How much of a compromise is going to all season tyres as offered by some European manufacturers as opposed to all year use of winter ones.

You drive all year on winter tyres!?