It started to slide so slowly by the time that i'd realised, the back end was really on its way. I tried correcting the car as to which it responded momentarily before loosing traction on all 4 wheels. Sliding sidewards into the curb and off of the road, writing the car off.

I hate driving in icy conditions and can now mostly avoid it, but when I couldn't it it was a case of driving without brakes, just using the gears to slow me down. I don't think I could do that with the TSI engine. I'd need to rely on the ABS and other trickery. I think modern cars are also at a disadvantage with the wider tyres. Skinny tires steer better on ice and snow.

I think, knowing how to drive in the snow is a key element to any ones safety.

I think this is something that should be taught as part of your lessons and tests as in switzerland i think it is. Obviously using skidpans and facilities to replicate low grip situations.

I've seen plenty of people trying to set off from lights in icy conditions bouncing off of the rev limiter.

To a truck coming out of a junction at some speed while im sat at lights, which actually scared the hell out of me.

As for skinnier tyres being a advantage im unsure, i had a car full of people some years back with 205 tyres on and my mate had a punto with himself and another friend in and i left them going up a hill covered in snow.

Then ended up loosing front end grip and being sidewards across the road on the hill.

Then again i wasn't hanging about and was feathering at the throttle with some revs and momentum behind me.

cant win in the snow, momentum is all well and good till you want to stop, but its all you want when you dont want to stop

I find the ESP does a pretty good job even in emergency cases, even with the somewhat large tail of my estate.

Yet, to be honest, sometimes I got scared by perceiving wheels braking spontaneously even if I hadn't detect anything strange on the road (perhaps it was a bit too slippery, or I was a bit too brisk for ESP/ASR tastes ).

Still have to test the Octy on snow/ice. Had some snow with my old and fast AX GT and later, ice and snow with my old and ssllooow Astra (it was impossible to stand up and walk, but I arrived home safely ).

As for skinnier tyres being a advantage im unsure, i had a car full of people some years back with 205 tyres on and my mate had a punto with himself and another friend in and i left them going up a hill covered in snow.

Then ended up loosing front end grip and being sidewards across the road on the hill.

Then again i wasn't hanging about and was feathering at the throttle with some revs and momentum behind me.

I think fat tyres are better for traction and skinnies better for steering, so probably fatties are better at stopping providing you're not skidding, in which case skinnies are better for steering around objects you can avoid.

I remember a firm bringing out a tyre with rubber studs which only became stiff at temperatures approaching freezing. I don't think it was a success as I haven't heard anything more about them.

thats just niceties.

I have only just moved back from germany where you have to have winter tyres and the difference between them is absolutley huge. summer tyres loose nealry all they're grip properties at about 0 degrees C.

winter tyres woek way lower.