Hi,

I have had the car remapped by P-Torque, so it is now pushing just over 140bhp. I was wondering what is the most cost effective way to get some extra performance from the vehicle?

Thanks.

Brake and suspension upgrades, or go looking for an L&K or a rare late Ambiante 130.

Hi,

I have had the car remapped by P-Torque, so it is now pushing just over 140bhp. I was wondering what is the most cost effective way to get some extra performance from the vehicle?

Thanks.

As above, fitting some lowering springs is a good cost effective way of improving handling

Hi Will,

Anything that can be done to up the power on the cheap?

Brake and suspension upgrades, or go looking for an L&K or a rare late Ambiante 130.

I think you mean 'Elegance':thumbup:, Are you OK Ken?

Cheap upgrades

x Panel Filter

x Brake upgrade (either uprated disc & pads in your normal size or look for a 312mm upgrade kit)

x Suspension bushes/ARB bushes/Wishbone bushes all help with tightening up the front end a little

x RARB (Rear Anti Roll Bar) I can't comment on these as I've not fitted one

x Pikey Wheel arch mod to help with OEM intercooler cooling in the summer

In my opinion after that you start looking at expensive mods

x Full suspension upgrades (Spring and Damper kits or slightly more expensive Coilover kits)

x 17" or 18" wheels with a low profile wider (225 profile) tyre can help with improving Grip levels on the Warm Dry days but in the colder winter/wet/snowier days will probably hinder the Grip levels

x Turbo Back Performance Exhaust with De-Cat

x Intercooler & Turbo upgrade

I wasn't aware they'd done an Elegance 130.

I think the base point still applies though; it you want more than about 150bhp you should start with a PD130, and not a 110.

Agreed, if your after a performance diesel the PD130 is the engine to start with as it's very strong and tunable.

Thanks for the advice guys, I have already done the following:

RARB

Super Pro Wishbone Bushes

17" Vrs Alloys (225/45/17)

P-Torque Remap

Brakes may be next best bet as I feel the RARB has worked wonders and far as making the car feel a bit more composed. Any recommendations for the brakes?

After that turbo, and intercooler - how much would that cost for the extra ummph, and how would it effect the fuel economy?

Thanks

Agreed, if your after a performance diesel the PD130 is the engine to start with as it's very strong and tunable.

I have to disagree, the TDI110 was at the time the most thermally efficient engine that VW had made.

It is a massively tunable engine and can go way past 140bhp, with the correct mods.

FMIC, bigger turbo and higher flow injectors. (Note these injectors are much cheaper than PD ones, esp if you use the ones from the next engine up in that range.)

Once that is done, map it again and you should have lots of power.

Obviously that needs coupling with brakes and suspension upgrades + decent tyres to deal with the power.

Unless you can convince me that the 110 makes better BMEP or specific consumption, I'd have to say that the key words there were "at the time".

After all, at the time they were intrduced, PSA's XUD7 and 9 were the best light diesels in the World. The VAG 1.9D series and PSA's own HDi series outpoint the XUDs in every way now.

Unless you can convince me that the 110 makes better BMEP or specific consumption, I'd have to say that the key words there were "at the time".

After all, at the time they were intrduced, PSA's XUD7 and 9 were the best light diesels in the World. The VAG 1.9D series and PSA's own HDi series outpoint the XUDs in every way now.

I'd have to check, but I'm fairly certain that the PD115 and the PD130 were less thermally efficient than the TDI 110.

Regardless of which, my point still stands that a TDI110 is still very highly tunable.

Also did the TDI110 have a DMF, I don't remember it having one, but the PD130's did.

FWIW the injectors are from the TDI 2.5L (5pot) .

Part numbers I've seen floating around are:

046130201F and 046130202F (with Sensor)

074130201K and 074130202 R (with sensor)

You might also need to get the higher flow rate fuel pump (think the Galaxy TDI 110 had one but a tuner should be able to find out for you)

Edited 5 November, 200916 yr by cheezemonkhai

Yes the PD130 does have a DMF and modded sensibly they do last

Both engines are probably highly tunable but as the pd130 is well know through the mods that have been carried out on the Fabia vRS's and looking at the route that Jason took with his fabia there must be a good reason to use the PD130 over the TDi110 for big power and reliability.

Depending on what BHP/Torque your aiming for should determine which engine you should aim for, eg. I was aiming for something similar to my old Octavia vRS and the cheapest way for me was the PD130 which needed a remap/exhaust/filter, to get that kind of gain from a TDi110 would have cost me alot more in tuning and in my mind would have put more stress on a lesser powered engine as they weren't designed to have that much extra power running through them. (I'm not technical though)

I would think Jasons reason for tuning the PD130 not a TDI 110 was he had one from his VRS which was written off and also that the PD130 was already fitted to a fabia, so no conversion was needed.

I'm sure both tune well, but if you have a TDI 110 in an octy then you're best off going from that base than buying a PD130 to do the same.

As for not designed, you could say the same of the PD130. The 110 is less complex and as pointed out upgraded injectors etc are a lot less as they are not PD unit injectors. IIRC the block shares a lot of parts and it's the head etc that differs. Just think how much jason has spent on that car. Probably more than a new VRS costs

Now what I'm not saying is that the PD130 might not be easier to do the first jump, however what I am saying is that if you have a TDI 110 then there is no point selling it to buy a PD130 to modify. You might as well just modify the TDI110.

Out of interest what are the figures for your PD130.

I'm not asking how much Jason and Shifty spent on tuning their cars, but ISTR they're both based on 130s, and made something like 20bhp less than the Seat WTC cars, with the full resources of VAG behind tuning them, so there's a known route to getting a near-works engine from a stock 130.

I'm not asking how much Jason and Shifty spent on tuning their cars

I think that in a real world environment (most people wouldn't consider full engine swaps i.e. 110 to a 130 in the same car) it's worth tuning the 110, especially since the original poster is talking about cost vs effect, therefore i'd imagine money IS an object here (the main point of cheeze's post I think).

I know that the discussion is now purely down to engine spec, but there are other factors to a car than just it's engine. In my case, unless I could find an L&K 130 then anything else would be downgrading in my eyes. UPgrading is all well and good as long as you have the funds to do so.

Like matt said, it's all down to what kind of power you want to end up with as to what you start with. I think the 110 is a more than capable engine. Assuming circa 150 is high enough figure for you then keep the 110, tune and enjoy it.

Now what I'm not saying is that the PD130 might not be easier to do the first jump, however what I am saying is that if you have a TDI 110 then there is no point selling it to buy a PD130 to modify. You might as well just modify the TDI110.

Out of interest what are the figures for your PD130.

I know when I was looking for my current car it took me a very long time to find, I wanted the PD130 as most of the tuning info that was readily available on here can be found in the fabia section and showed as only needing a few mods to make the numbers close to where I wanted them.

Currently from a Generic Remap/Panel Filter & Miltec Exhaust with Decat the last figures from Awesomes RR was 343ftlb & 185bhp, without the miltec it ran 320ftlb & 174bhp which isn't bad for less than £400 and very little effort.

I'd have to check, but I'm fairly certain that the PD115 and the PD130 were less thermally efficient than the TDI 110.

Regardless of which, my point still stands that a TDI110 is still very highly tunable.

Also did the TDI110 have a DMF, I don't remember it having one, but the PD130's did.

FWIW the injectors are from the TDI 2.5L (5pot) .

Part numbers I've seen floating around are:

046130201F and 046130202F (with Sensor)

074130201K and 074130202 R (with sensor)

You might also need to get the higher flow rate fuel pump (think the Galaxy TDI 110 had one but a tuner should be able to find out for you)

Hi cheezemonkhai,

Thanks for your input, quick question:

So from what you are saying if I change the injectors and fuel pump to the ones you suggested, plus get a remap of course - how much power would I be looking at? How much would these injectors and pump cost me approx? Also - how would it affect fuel economy and reliability?

Thanks very much everyone for posting. It is much appreciated!

As per the PM, I'd speak to a tuner (plenty here as site sponsors) who can advise you as to if these are the correct parts and what performance you could expect from your modification budget.

so if the only difference between the 90 and the 110 is the injectors, then you could get a massive torque/power increase on a 90 too?

turbocharger is different, wastegate on 90bhp, vnt on 110 bhp

ah right thank you.

are they interchangeable?

I could pick a turbo and injectors up from a scrapyard... or is that a bad idea. (Injectors will be a bad idea as they wont be clean)

ECU is also different - different fuel maps. Plus TDI110 has an oil cooler, not sure if TDI90 has one (probably not). There probably are other differences, wouldn't be surprised if fuel pump had different flow rate.

so if the only difference between the 90 and the 110 is the injectors, then you could get a massive torque/power increase on a 90 too?

Turbo is usually different, in that the 90 has a wastegate and the 110 uses VNT.

You can however put TDI110 injectors in a TDI90 and get a power boost without a map or other tweaks.

This is because the car injects more fuel than it thinks with each revolution.