Any Stage 2 Owners Wanting More Power This Christmas?

[dan_the_v8man]

Nope not at all, just Im thinking I may be better selling the turbo on and looking at importing one of the A4 S3 K04 upgrade kits from the US

[vRSy]

thats the idea, do it myself and use Shark Performance for the mapping and injector coding.

to be honest, the more I think about it, the more likely I am to sell the turbo, so if your still interested...

yes i am

[dan_the_v8man]

you've got a PM

[vRSy]

Nope not at all, just Im thinking I may be better selling the turbo on and looking at importing one of the A4 S3 K04 upgrade kits from the US

are there no other options on the market BSH, regal etc

what about possibility of bypassing the idea of k04 due to cost and going for another type of turbo Gt28 or similar. the GT28 is pretty similar to the k04 with slightly better power available, with a slightly slower spool.

at the the mk5gti RR dayin surrey(dynodynamics), a guy there with TFSI leon that was GT28 turbo'd and water methed made 391hp,

take about 20hp off for the meth and you'llstill have a really car with huge power and grip, for prob less than what the APR jobbie would be.

[magic62]

http://www.goapr.com...0t_fsi_k04.html

On sale now.

Prices in Austria 4999 euros (complete kit with uprated pump, but doesnt say antything about mapping)

http://www.audituner...8e223934fc4f447

and in Germany 5499 euros (complete kit with uprated fuel pump, but doesnt say anything about mapping)

http://www.goapr.de/20t.html

Edited 31 December, 2009 by magic62

[vRSy]

what about 450hp

http://www.aptuning.net/450HP_Turbo_Kit_for_B7_Audi_A4_2_0T_FSI_p/atp-vvw-213.htm

Gt2871 and the k04 conversion

http://www.turbo-kits.com/20t_awd_turbo_kits.html

prices for everything incl HPFP, TBE though

Edited 31 December, 2009 by vRSy

[dan_the_v8man]

Im not bothered about mapping anyway, Id be leaving that to Shark Performance regardless

[dan_the_v8man]

your just after my turbo aren't you? :p

They look very tempting though the first 450hp kit seems to be rather worryingly lacking any intake

[vRSy]

smae here mate, i will be doing the exact same. customer service as well as good results, thats where its at.

revo is a great product and its a proven performer, but i keep finding posts where people have had an issue with the car and REVOs immediate response is, its the car not the map, and they arnt interested anymore. even if they were correct which they were on most of them, its less than helpful and puts me off them.

Im getting ben @:shark to do the same again

Edited 31 December, 2009 by vRSy

[vRSy]

your just after my turbo aren't you? :p

They look very tempting though the first 450hp kit seems to be rather worryingly lacking any intake

yes i am , but if you get one of those bigger turbos, you have to take me out in one. it would be nuts in one of them with no traction issues

[Harry_vRS]

Revo Stage 3 + K04 FTW

Sell your turbo to Sy Dan, and buy a proper kit it will be far easier!

[dan_the_v8man]

smae here mate, i will be doing the exact same. customer service as well as good results, thats where its at.revo is a great product and its a proven performer, but i keep finding posts where people have had an issue with the car and REVOs immediate response is, its the car not the map, and they arnt interested anymore. even if they were correct which they were on most of them, its less than helpful and puts me off them.Im getting ben @:shark to do the same again

Exactly, even if it is a car issue Ben is interested in getting it sorted and getting the car performing how it should and he's not afraid of trying something new

and when I get the power figures up your more than welcome to come for a spin

[dan_the_v8man]

Revo Stage 3 + K04 FTWSell your turbo to Sy Dan, and buy a proper kit it will be far easier!

big big price difference though, Im quite happy to do a lot of the work myself rather than pay for some one elses solution

[vRSy]

Revo Stage 3 + K04 FTW

mate, id be more than happy with havingREVO on my car they have an awesome product,and they always perform well. but i dont like their customer service if you hve an issue, ben bends over back wards to help you

[dan_the_v8man]

I disagree, though I can only speak for the stage 1 products but the revo has plenty of grunt low down and quickly runs out, okay if you like lighting the front wheels up, I know that can be controlled with a good right foot but its nice if you've got usable power delivery. With the Shark map you get a much more usable product in my opinion

And as you say, Ben's customer service is spot on

[Micky 32]

I disagree, though I can only speak for the stage 1 products but the revo has plenty of grunt low down and quickly runs out, okay if you like lighting the front wheels up, I know that can be controlled with a good right foot but its nice if you've got usable power delivery. With the Shark map you get a much more usable product in my opinion

And as you say, Ben's customer service is spot on

I can't speak for stage 1 but have heard stories the same, i have only driven stage 2+ and stage 3 and i can say without doubt it doesn't quickly run out. Stage 2+ on a Ko3 is a very nice map.

[dan_the_v8man]

well I think thats the way im going to be going for a while, as far as I can with the K03

[vRSy]

what are your options for an intercooler, and discharge/charge pies for yours dan. I reckon yours with a de-cat and non res turbo back exhiast and a good intake would get some good results @stage 3

[dan_the_v8man]

you would say that :p but I think your right, looking at 280bhp as a realistic figure without pushing the turbo too far

I've just found a bloke in sheff that fitted a K04 to his A4 though and said it was a piece of cake

[vRSy]

you would say that :p but I think your right, looking at 280bhp as a realistic figure without pushing the turbo too far

I've just found a bloke in sheff that fitted a K04 to his A4 though and said it was a piece of cake

would you be interested in water meth injection, i reckon with a tweaked map 300hp on a dyno dynamics roller,(not another high reading dyno) is possible or at least very close to it.

if you check out his graph. this is the car i mentioned earlier. The leon with the GT28 big turbo conversion.

This graph shows a run with water meth on and one with water meth turned off.

with water meth off peak power of 372bhp 350Ibft

with water meth turn on peak power 391bhp 365Ibft and excluding the dip at 4750rpm hes about 10hp accross the entire rev range.

On an even more positive not, dan the guy who owns it said it hasnt been mapped to make the most of the water meth injection yet, that is literally the car adapting itself. So there is potential to get even more from it. with a bit of tweaking on the map.

I will get water meth at some point, hopefully after my car gets a nice k04 bolted to it.

[dan_the_v8man]

that sort of power id be worried about the bottom end giving in and the lack of forged internals with a K03 engine

Im guessing the Seat started off as a k04?

Edited 1 January, 2010 by dan_the_v8man

[vRSy]

that sort of power id be worried about the bottom end giving in and the lack of forged internals with a K03 engine

Im guessing the Seat started off as a k04?

believe it or not it wasnt even a 200ps TFSI, it was just a seat leon sport(think 180hp or somethinkg like that)

he has also bent a piston in the past, he now has a fully uprated bottom end as far as i know.

you interested in water meth then. here is a load of info from phil@BSH

Water Methanol injection is a fantastic Product with many different uses. here are a few links where there isn't any arguing to sift through.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/faq.php?cID=1

http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs_type.php?type=gasoline

You will gather from reading through both FAQ pages that at first glance there isn't much difference between the two kits. I personally lean towards DO kits but I will get into that in a minute...

There are Three main benefits that are usually covered with the installation of Water/Meth. Power, Cleaning Property's & Fuel economy.

Power:

The tuner you use is going to make a pretty big impact on whether or not you will be able to get the full power benefit of one of these kits. With Chip Tuning that doesn't offer switchable maps you will probably see about 10 to 14 HP. This is very comparable to throwing 109 Octane in the tank of a completely stock car. The biggest power gains are going to come with chip tuning that offers some sort of switchable "Race Fuel File" pretty much all of the most reputable software companies have this option, GIAC and their flash loader, REVO with their SPS, and even APR with that nifty switcher that is built into the column. When you have the availability to switch to a MAP that runs a higher boost level and more advanced timing you will see huge power gains and can really take advantage of the octane boost. In some of our studies we have seen up to 40 WHP paired with an appropriate MAP on the 2.0t FSI.

Cleaning:

The cleaning benefit is also huge with these kits. It is a commonly known issue that there is a huge amount of build up on the intake valves on the FSI cars due to the direct injection and horrible stock PCV system. The water pretty much steam cleans the valves as it passes by on it's way into the cylinder. In my personal experience with the FSI these kits do a better job at keeping valves clean then they do at penetrating the massive amounts of build-up that forms on the MKV.

Fuel economy:

Fuel economy is increased in the gasoline cars just like if you were to run "Race Fuel". The extra 20-25% of octane provided by the methanol allows for more spark timing advance and a leaner air/fuel ratio with the use of a programmer. Both of these factors not only improve power, their efficiency gains improve mileage as well. Additionally, many modern cars will detect the combustion of the methanol and reduce the injection of gasoline accordingly through the adjustment of long-term fuel trim values in the vehicles computer. This can directly and positively impact gasoline fuel economy. Gains of 5-15% are possible depending on how the vehicle is tuned and driven.

For diesel Vehicles The MPG-MAXâ„¢ systems from Snow Performance is specifically designed to enhance Power and fuel economy. Both the diesel MPG-MAXâ„¢ systems are specifically designed to inject a very small and precise amount of water/methanol under normal driving conditions such as accelerating away from a stop light or driving up a slight grade. Gains of 10-20% are possible depending on how the vehicle is tuned and driven.

Recap for OP:

1- power/torque increases when used on top of a standard remap

8 - 15 WHP

2- Power/torque figures when used in conjunction with a water/methanol specific remap to make the most of it.

25 - 40 WHP

3- How long a mixture will last,

Depending on driving habits you will go through about 1 gallon of mix to a tank of gas.

4- Can it be set up to only operate on full throttle or will it be on all the time.

The progressive controller option on the stage 2 kits makes this very adjustable.

5- What different water/meth ratios will give what sort of results.

The more methanol you use the more octane you see the more water you use the more cooling you see.

6- Can it damage your car

Not if installed properly.

7- best places to store the mixture

Garage, shed, barn...? check label on methanol container.

8- will it clean out your engine like nos would

YES!

In my own personal experience I lean towards the Devils own kit. The Snow kits have there benefit but for the 2.0t direct injection motors Devils Own has my vote. Just about every kit on the market has an adjustable progressive-rate controller. The reason DO has everyone licked is because there progressive rate controller is Pulse regulated. That means that as your car builds boost the pump is being sent full 12V pulses until it reaches the specified full-on mode that you set on the controller. The benefit is that you are seeing better atomization of the mixture all the way through the power ban thus seeing more performance and better cooling. Other benefits are that DO's standard pump is a strong 250 psi pump There nozzles are of their own design and focused around ease of installation and the bulk heads that let you to tap into the window washer tank allow you to have an indicator light on your dash letting you know when it's time for a refill.

We are master Distributors of Devils own and Snow performance, we currently supply multiple dealers with there Water/Methanol kits all over the world including BADGER 5. Dubtek being a BSH Dealer also has full access to these kits.

Link:

http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/home.php?cat=703

Edited 1 January, 2010 by vRSy

[vRSy]

believe it or not it wasnt even a 200ps TFSI, it was just a seat leon sport(think 180hp or somethinkg like that)

he has also bent a piston in the past, he now has a fully uprated bottom end as far as i know.

you interested in water meth then. here is a load of info from phil@BSH

this is somethinkg i found quite interesting. one of the guys on the gti forum, did a graphed comparison of the power and torque for a k04 and GT2871 cars.

hurdys is the k04 , danGb is the garrett

look how early the k04 cars come on power in comparison, you can see the extra lag the gareett has, before its on full song.

The only thing is how tractable will it be having so much power coming in so early. Day to day the k04 would without doubt be the better car, but with the extra lag on the garrett, i bet theres better traction off the mark, and once that garrett is on boost, it'd be long gone i bet.

[shark_90]

I've just found a bloke in sheff that fitted a K04 to his A4 though and said it was a piece of cake

Yeah, he asked me to map it for him but I haven't heard from him in a while.

[vRSy]

Yeah, he asked me to map it for him but I haven't heard from him in a while.

here you go dan

some pics of installs

speaking to a few people who have done this, they reckon a nozzle 6"berfore your throttle body is hthe minimum maybe another @ the bottom just after the intercooler.

or you could go crazy like this guy and get them in your inlet manifold as well.

pics from this build thread http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98645&highlight=water+methanol

here are some of peoples do it yourself threads i have read.

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109278&highlight=water+methanol

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50805&highlight=water+methanol

Edited 2 January, 2010 by vRSy