Sorry mate but it may seem logical to you but it's not the case............ :(

What's the difference?

Unless the light is physically emitted in a different direction with xenon lamps and halogen lamps (to use the proper terms!), the same sized lamp within a projector housing should have the same beam pattern.

As you can clearly see, the relevant text says "should", not "must". Therefore the statement you have quoted is a recommendation and not a statement of legal requirements. QED.

You certainly clearly appear to be focusing on a single word of the whole text to justify the use of After Market HID. While the whole document quite plainly goes to some length stressing and spelling out that After Market HID fitments are not legal, that they are not suited to Halogen. They bend over backwards not in a dictatorial way but a helpful suggestion on how HID after market lights might be fitted legally. That in their view, that particular accredited HID Lamps are used and that self levelling equipment and pressure washing is used.

What they are saying is that unless you do all of these things then you are clearly breaking the law. Even suggesting that the sale of these lamps for retrofitting is against the law. How many people who fit these after market HID bulbs, even attempt to accommodate any of the points that the DfT makes, correct and marked housings, auto levelling, high pressure wash?

I beleive that it is also very likely that MOT testing station will start to look at these things just as they have with LED marker lamps, which cause far less problems on the road.

What's the difference?

Unless the light is physically emitted in a different direction with xenon lamps and halogen lamps (to use the proper terms!), the same sized lamp within a projector housing should have the same beam pattern.

Some things in life are not as black and white as they may appear......... :no:

Firstly the filament centre of a Halogen Bulb will not be the same as the centre of a Xenon Bulb, this means that a Xenon Projector has a different reflector parabola within the projector than a Halogen version, just because the 'domed lens' seems to be a similar size then it does not mean you can do as you please............there is a lot of simulation and design work that goes into ensuring that the intended light source has everything around it designed specific to it's requirements.

Xenon is three times brighter than Halogen so ensuring that the light is being distributed correctly on the road is one of the many legal requirements in place in order for a light source to be approved within a lamp assembly and the lamp assembly approved for road use in the designated market.

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by Baker21

I am not aware of the specific Head Lamp your refering to but nowadays most Xenon light sources use a module to project the light however Xenon light when it first came out was used in reflector's, the difference being that the reflector would have been designed for that light source.......

THanks Baker - I figured it was somehting like that.

I guess I was trying to point out (in a round about way) that the simple statement "They are not suited to reflector lights" that people keep repeating wasn't absolutely correct... provided the reflectors are designed to suit HID's they are OK.

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

And that says about putting HIDs in standard reflector headlights....

QFT.

QFT, which one do you mean

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I think you will find that the Xenon kit going into a Projector style headlight produces the EXACT same cut off of light

See here for a couple of pics when i first got my 35w kit.

Not trying to cause and argument or say people are wrong. All im saying is that with the projector headlights fitted to my Mk2 Octavia there is no difference in beam pattern or cut off with Halogen bulbs or a HID Kit.

There are also kits out there from the good companies which are used in Reflector headlights. These have a black strip along the bulb which is the Anti-Glare and stops the light pattern being distorted and thrown everywhere.

Carl

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by vRSCarl

I have to say, that the image shows a very clean and defined cut off. However being devils advocate digital imaging has a sensitivity that might not show up ill defined light scatter, nor am I saying that their is any.

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by Anthony 1

Well it was taken with a Sony Digital Camera from inside the car on it's standard setting

No alteration etc and the light pattern from the Halogens is exactly the same.

Carl

It ides look very good.

This is one of those topics that IMHO can't be discussed to gain an opinion that everyone agrees on and I said this in the OP's original thread some time back............. :'(

People will do as they please and it's no different to me with my number plates or tinted window's, it's not legal but hey I am going to do it whatever.........

With regards to Carl's post, yep it does look like a good cut off but it's not the cut off that passes legal requirements, take the lamps off the car and let's get them in our light lab here and see if they pass ECE legal checks, with the black spots I can see under the beam cut off and the intensity around the cut off I would bet on a 'non pass'...............

I am going to crawl back under my rock now and get on with some work.............

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by Baker21

I have the same experience, just installed a HID Xenon in my Skoda Fabia. Before I used Osram Nightbreakers.

I have LESS people flashing me now than with the Nightbreakers. Now I only get an occasional flash on country roads in turns and bumps, where people also flashed me with the Nightbreakers. Both were alligned correctly and I set my light down, when people are in the back and if I have heavy stuff in the back. I also clean my lights daily, both with Xenon and Nightbreakers.

Some people just don't realise that headlights function asymertrically and seem to be "just waiting" to flash, not considering hills and bumps. And some people are very sensitive and flash on anything brighter than a cheap standard bulb.

As those people flash you no matter what, I haven't found that a Xenon HID means I'm being flashed more actually it's less. I realise they are illegal even in Denmark, but I just love the way reflexes (on the road, people, dogs, bicycles and so on) and road signs stand out with the xenon.

But I also realise that the brighter bulb (Xenon and + Halogen bulbs), gives me a further responsibility to clean my headlights and adjust height when driving with more or less weight in the back.

Just my quarter euro.

/Kenn

I'll let you know if i get through my MOT with the now 50w Xenon kit i have which is twice as bright (now thats bound to start the "that's illegal chastise him" posters )

Carl

This is one of those topics that IMHO can't be discussed to gain an opinion that everyone agrees on and I said this in the OP's original thread some time back............. :'(

People will do as they please and it's no different to me with my number plates or tinted window's, it's not legal but hey I am going to do it whatever.........

With regards to Carl's post, yep it does look like a good cut off but it's not the cut off that passes legal requirements, take the lamps off the car and let's get them in our light lab here and see if they pass ECE legal checks, with the black spots I can see under the beam cut off and the intensity around the cut off I would bet on a 'non pass'...............

I am going to crawl back under my rock now and get on with some work.............

Some very good points and basically true.

Pics do look great, has to be said, and based on that I feel a lot more comfortable fitting these.

Thanks to all who have expressed opinions and info - just need to find someone to fit them now - or are they easy to do?

Much love!

Andy

What kit are you getting?

If it's a HIDS4U or HIDS-Direct then the fitting is a piece of pi55.

took me about 20mins to do on both the 35w kit and swapping the 35w for a 50w kit.

Carl

Getting a premium Can-Bus from these guys http://www.hids4us.co.uk/

Not heard of them to be honest

Would stick with either HIDS4U.co.uk or HIDS-Direct (who are in manchester so not far to go if something goes wrong)

Carl

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by vRSCarl

Getting a premium Can-Bus from these guys http://www.hids4us.co.uk/

Not heard of them to be honest

Would stick with either HIDS4U.co.uk or HIDS-Direct (who are in manchester so not far to go if something goes wrong)

Carl

Probably just a clever marketing ploy so they get the benefit of the hids4u reputation? :wonder:

You certainly clearly appear to be focusing on a single word of the whole text to justify the use of After Market HID. While the whole document quite plainly goes to some length stressing and spelling out that After Market HID fitments are not legal, that they are not suited to Halogen. They bend over backwards not in a dictatorial way but a helpful suggestion on how HID after market lights might be fitted legally. That in their view, that particular accredited HID Lamps are used and that self levelling equipment and pressure washing is used.

What they are saying is that unless you do all of these things then you are clearly breaking the law. Even suggesting that the sale of these lamps for retrofitting is against the law. How many people who fit these after market HID bulbs, even attempt to accommodate any of the points that the DfT makes, correct and marked housings, auto levelling, high pressure wash?

I beleive that it is also very likely that MOT testing station will start to look at these things just as they have with LED marker lamps, which cause far less problems on the road.

It's really very simple; regardless of what they meant to say, they have written a recommendation, and not a mandate. Don't bother to reply again if you can't understand the difference.

Not heard of them to be honest

Would stick with either HIDS4U.co.uk or HIDS-Direct (who are in manchester so not far to go if something goes wrong)

Carl

Ahh OK will give them a go then - thx dude

It's really very simple; regardless of what they meant to say, they have written a recommendation, and not a mandate. Don't bother to reply again if you can't understand the difference.

I do understand the difference. They are commenting on and giving opinion on their interpretation of Law EU and That in England & Wales most probably Scotland as well as EU Law tends to supersede home laws as regards to these matters. In regards to After Market HID Bulbs. It is not a legal document. You referred to it initially, in part, I just printed the whole text rather than choosing to show only those small extracted and unexplained parts that favoured a particular point of view.

Lights ordered.

I am trying the 50w HID's to see what they are like. Can always get 35w if I get any problems with them

i have a 50w Kit in mine and it is fantastic. Did you use HIDS-Direct?

It all fits in the plastic cover too (just)

Im up north over the weekend so if you get any probs let me know as my folks (Wigan) is not far from you.

Carl

In regards to After Market HID Bulbs.

...when used inside normal hallogen reflector housings.

I'll QFT again if you like?