vRS:New oil pump and still no oil to top end

[skotskod]

A couple of mornings last week I got the red oil pressure warning light coming on from starting after a few hundred yards drive, then went away. Both times i doubled back home and topped the oil up (first time it was below the lower level on the stick, 2nd time it was ok but I just added 100ml more just in case). On both days I drove 100 miles. On the second day just as I was nearing home (couple of mile) it came on again, went away, then came on again. So I limped it home.

Next day it was driven to local garage about a mile away with no warning coming on. He's had the sump off - found no gunking or blockage, but decided to replace the oil pump. But there's still a problem - no oil to the top end (had the rocker cover off and not a drop coming through). A pressure check at the bottom end is being done, awaiting result.

What else could it be?

Next stage is to have the head off and check for blocked oil ways. Else it looks like a new engine. Can it really go this bad in such a short time? I realise driving with a dry top end could quickly knacker it, but I didn't drive much more than 2-3 miles when the warning was on.

Edited 9 March, 2010 by skotskod

[sc0rpius]

U should be orite, same thing happened to my engine and it also made a horrible knocking noise as a result the turbo blew aswell. Had to have the turbo reconned and a new oil pump. Now it drives orite the mpg is a bit poor though dont know why and its a bit slower. So its not perfect but im sure ill get these little problems fixed. It did run quite a bit faster with the maf off so it could be that.

[skotskod]

Previous week I'd actually had the MAF and throttle body off and cleaned both as I was experiencing rough idle. That cured it but I don't think that was in any way related to this problem.

I've also read on an Audi TT forum that a leaking cam chain tensioner could cause low oil pressure at the top end. Garage guy is thinking maybe blocked oil ways and might take the head off to inpect.

[mikey vrs]

You say they had the sump off......did they remove the oil pick up strainer & strip it & check it isnt blocked? this is a common problem with the 1.8t engine.

[skotskod]

Well they just said it was clean, with no sign of gunking up, which was why they replaced the oil pump as that was the next likely thing. However, they didn't actually say they removed the pick up strainer and stripped it. I'll ask him tomorrow. Is there a piccy of this little bugger anywhere so i can visualize what going on? Is it just a pipe with matal gauze or something at the entry to filter larger particles?

Presumably if there is still a blockage inside the pick up, the oil pressure test at the oil pump will show some anomaly surely? My worry is that the oil pump pressure looks fine and pressure is being leaked big time somewhere between the pump and the top end and the only thing to suggest will be strip the engine.

[skotskod]

You say they had the sump off......did they remove the oil pick up strainer & strip it & check it isnt blocked? this is a common problem with the 1.8t engine.

Ok I'm assuming this is the oil pickup tube - if the flanged end presumably bolts onto the oil pump, I guess it would have all been removed if the oil pump was changed and checked. If it wasn't actually removed and the strainer gauze was not visibly blocked, then I would have thought it unlikely the pipe part itself could be blocked. But the price of this part, it could have just been replaced really.

[vRSLen]

Oil pressure and broken springs seem to be the recent MKI problems....

[skotskod]

+2 broken springs on this one already!

[vrs180]

I've also read on an Audi TT forum that a leaking cam chain tensioner could cause low oil pressure at the top end. Garage guy is thinking maybe blocked oil ways and might take the head off to inpect.

It may well be a leaking cam chain tensioner but if it were mine I'd check the simple things first before I pulled the head off.

The garage has replaced the pump and checked the strainer, next I'd check the oil pressure relief valve (its in the right hand side of the oil filter housing).

Be careful when you unscrew it..... its a spring loaded plunger.

Check for dirt, debris etc in there.... or a broken/weak spring and that the plunger is free to move and also make an effective seal when in the closed position.

TBH I've not heard of any specific 1.8t oil pressure relief valve problems.... but I'm an HGV fitter and its not unheard of for HGV's to suffer oil pressure reg problems.

HTH.

[Tom_vRS]

If oil is being poured in the top, and its not getting to the sump, a blocked oil way is all it can be surely?

[skotskod]

I'm hoping so. Still waiting to hear result of pressure test. They checked the turbo/bearing and that's ok btw.

Just worried now 'cos a blocked oil way would not give low pressure would it? (slightly the opposite probably, as there is effectively less volume to pump against), so the only thing left is main bearings...

[vrs180]

If oil is being poured in the top, and its not getting to the sump, a blocked oil way is all it can be surely?

Ermmm....... he does'nt actually say that the oil cant get from the rocker cover back to the sump (or at least the way I read it) :no:

More like the oil is not being pumped up to the camshafts.

You would think with no oil supply....... the hydraulic tappets might be rattling a bit by now

[skotskod]

That's right, the return to the sump is ok, it's just being starved of oil on the way up. Is there just one feed from the pump to the top end (not sure how this works, is it a separate pipe or single channel inside the block? With multiple channels, you wouldn't expect all to get blocked and for at least some oil to get up top). If a single channel/pipe got blocked then maybe the pressure at the pump actually gets too high and the pressure relief valve dumps oil/pressure back to sump. or the pressure relief valve is stuck on.

It's really weird. The initial symptoms were red oil light coming on when I went up and over the local speed humps first thing in the morning. Later, next day when I was driving home, it come on when I was going up a little hill. This all sounds like oil draining to the back of the sump and/or blocked strainer/pick up.But it was clean. I don't think I drove more than 1.5 miles when it started to flash on/off/on etc on the way home, so I can't believe major damage has been done. It certainly didn't get noisy at all.

Still waiting to hear any news on the pressure test though, radio silence yesterday..

[skotskod]

Bad news from my garage. Oil pressure check shows 50% of what it should be apparently. Nothing more to do except have the engine out and try and fix, but he doesn't recommend this as it's probably not going to be economic. Possible worn crankshaft sleeves or something. It's done 118k, 51 plate and had been running smooth up until a week ago. How can that happen so quick?

Any other good suggestions gratefully received - else I think its going to be ebay unless anyone here wants it. I'd put it on 'car for sale' here but I'm getting 'You cannot start a new topic' - why is that?

More than slightly p'd off now.

Edited 11 March, 2010 by skotskod

[chicken_eyebrow]

Sorry to hear about this :(

I think you have to be a Freedom member (£12 annual subscription) to post cars or other items for sale.

You could get hold of another engine and get it fitted but I doubt that would work out much cheaper than having the existing one out and repaired - probably looking at over a grand for a 2nd hand engine and fitting. Or strip the car and sell the parts on ebay (interior, wheels, gearbox, lights, stereo, aircon etc), you could probably get close to £2k for all the bits but it's a bit of a faff especially if you need a car to get around.

Did the garage have any opinions on what caused it and whether it's a common problem, I'm getting a bit paranoid now as there've been a couple of posts like this recently about oil not getting to the top of the engine :(

[sc0rpius]

Damn sorry to hear that, yeh ive heard its a common problem so i reckon people should check there oil pump n stuff regularly and change the oil every 7000 miles or so. I guess im lucky so far after all my oil problems. Fingers crossed...

[mikey vrs]

It is normally the strainer blocking up due to lack of oil changes & poor quality oil been used.these engines can if looked after do a big mileage.Skot skod,do you know the history of your car? has it had regular oil changes? if not this could play a part in your engine problems.

[sc0rpius]

Your right Mikey my car was on long life service history they were changing the oil every 20k miles or so.

[skotskod]

Your right Mikey my car was on long life service history they were changing the oil every 20k miles or so.

We've had it since it was 18 months old (when it was 18k, now 118k) and haven't missed a yearly service, so I guess in 8 years that works out at 12.5k per, so a bit over the recommended. Up until a couple of years ago it was done at Winchester Skoda, but they ****ed me off with saying they had fixed a leaking hose when they hadn't touched it, so I've been going to a local garage for the last couple of years (servicing plus the 2 broken front springs).

vrs180: the stuck pressure relief valve sounds a possibility, I'm sure they must have checked that, but if not, its worth a go. In this forum it seemed he had similar symptoms to mine but it was not the problem (and also difficult to get back in) -the oil oil pickup was blocked. I wish mine could have been the same.

For anyone wondering, this explanation gives a good account of what happens if the pressure relief valves (both the pump and filter) gets stuck open.

[mikey vrs]

Well it sounds like you have looked after & serviced your car so this is a weird one.......hopefully it is just a dodgy relief valve,just a idea but the new oil pump could be faulty,it is possible that your old pump failed & the new one is faulty.i have had that on a combine diesel engine(it is rare but it can happen) hope you get it sorted soon & its not to expensive for you.

[skotskod]

Decided to arrange to get a second opinion (VAG specialist) who will drop the sump again and check everything out, including taking a peep inside the bearing covers. At least I should know what's wrong if it is a major failure of some kind.

This will be early next week, so stayed tuned for the next exciting episode.

In the meantime, when was the last time you changed your oil? Sleep well, don't have nightmares....

[chicken_eyebrow]

This threads got me really paranoid now :S

I did an oil change on mine about 3 weeks ago and put Quantum Synta Platinum 5w40 in as it was cheap on vwspares.co.uk and VRS owners on here have used it in the past (Fatty5000 and Bond007 to name two), but last two oil changes I did before that I used Castrol Edge 5w30. It gets two oil changes a year, one at the service and one between the services.

It's going in for a service this weekend, I told them not to do the oil again but might see if they recommend dropping the 5w40 out and putting 5w30 in :S

[skotskod]

This threads got me really paranoid now :S

I did an oil change on mine about 3 weeks ago and put Quantum Synta Platinum 5w40 in as it was cheap on vwspares.co.uk and VRS owners on here have used it in the past (Fatty5000 and Bond007 to name two), but last two oil changes I did before that I used Castrol Edge 5w30. It gets two oil changes a year, one at the service and one between the services.

It's going in for a service this weekend, I told them not to do the oil again but might see if they recommend dropping the 5w40 out and putting 5w30 in :S

I think you'll be alright tbh. I have a gut feeling my probs are down to missing the last oil change ('er indoors took it in for MoT in Nov and forgot to tell them to oil service as well. Being lazy, we thought we'd leave it til the spring). Trouble is, I do about 300 miles a week, so that 4k extra, plus the oil change was already overdue in Nov.

However, from the torrent of stuff I've now read on the net about sludge problems in 1.8T engines, it would seem that cleaning the sump and strainer/pickup at, say, 100k could be good preventative maintenance.

BTW your 'cleaning throttle body' guide was top notch, excellent pics and all.

Edited 12 March, 2010 by skotskod

[chicken_eyebrow]

Thanks, I might ask them when they service and oil change it next year to drop the sump as well and clean out the pickup strainer. I can't see it costing more than an hours labour for a bit of peace of mind. I think if they're happy with it at the weekend then I'll leave the 5w40 in it until the summer then do another change with Catrol Edge.

I noticed the other day the service schedule only recommends changing the filter every two years or 20,000 miles but mine gets replaced every time I do an oil change so I suppose that's got to help.

BTW your 'cleaning throttle body' guide was top notch, excellent pics and all.

Thanks! I've done a TB clean on a few local members cars since writing that, amazing how much crap can build up in those things!

Edited 12 March, 2010 by chicken_eyebrow

[skotskod]

Some better news:

The latest is that garage #2 has dropped the sump and found ... the oil pick tube strainer was blocked. They also opened the bearing covers (that were accessible) and found no wear problems. So no reason to believe that it wasn't just the strainer sludged up that was the problem all along. They will be re-fitting an original pump (which comes with a pickup tube/strainer apparently), steam cleaning the sump and refill with 5w/40 fully synth. The old pick up tube and replacement pump will be retained for examination by garage #1. I'll take pics of the offending article and post here. I should be collecting the car Fri morning all being well.