Work colleague reported that after a long journey his pre-owned 2002 passat engine seized. No raised temps or clouds of steam. I think its 1.6 petrol.

Apparently, engine warning light came on. He attended to it and the light went out so he carried on and, further on, it ground to a halt.

He's been told that he's lost compression on a couple of pots and that a rebuild is necessary and been quoted £1100 - I presume that's ex- third party charges, ex-parts, sundries, and VAT.

What's the worst case full cost for an engine rebuild nowadays ?

And what components are replaced as a matter of course ?

Is it worth an exchange engine ? Imagine he must have done at least 80,000 miles.

Is there a particular problem with Passat engine lubrication - there are a lot of US origin reports on the web referring to Sludge problems ?

Nick

VW had horrid problems with oil sludge in that engine. £1100 for a rebuild is dirt cheap. Typical rebuild is new or re-ground crankshaft and new main and big end shells. New oil pump. Ideally engine needs to be dipped to clean out all oil and water ways.

New hydraulic lifters and camshaft. Cylinder over bore and honing, new piston rings. After 80,000 miles close inspection on the cylinder head usually reveals hairline cracks around the valve seats, so new head as well. Figure £3000 at a respected engine engineering company. That includes all parts and labour and VAT, inc sundries like timing belt/pulleys, gaskets, new stretch bolts etc etc.

VW had horrid problems with oil sludge in that engine. £1100 for a rebuild is dirt cheap. Typical rebuild is new or re-ground crankshaft and new main and big end shells. New oil pump. Ideally engine needs to be dipped to clean out all oil and water ways.

New hydraulic lifters and camshaft. Cylinder over bore and honing, new piston rings. After 80,000 miles close inspection on the cylinder head usually reveals hairline cracks around the valve seats, so new head as well. Figure £3000 at a respected engine engineering company. That includes all parts and labour and VAT, inc sundries like timing belt/pulleys, gaskets, new stretch bolts etc etc.

I am correct in assuming that a full rebuild like that would be the equivalent of a fully re-manufactured (Exchange) engine, so costs would be about the same. Presumably a locally re-built engine would only attract a 3 month dealer warranty on the repair, whereas specialist supplier re-manufactured engines are advertised on the web with five year warranties.

Is there the risk that, following a re-build, you'll also experience consequential gearbox/clutch problems as you've effectively got a new, more powerful engine (after its run-in), interfacing with a lot of other pre-worn transmission and running gear parts.

Do VW now recommend use of flushing oil at regular intervals to combat the sludge problem ? Have their been manufacturer recalls on this engine ?

Just out of interest do you know what's an acceptable difference in compression pressures between pots. I've read if its greater than 3 atmospheres (42lbs a square inch/3 bar) then you've got problems - this on a scale where 7.5 atmospheres is the expected compression pressure on a new, tight engine at TDC - that's a pretty generous margin.

If the engine only seized lightly and could be re-started once it had cooled, is there the possibility that it could continue to be used, following an engine oil flush and refill, providing the compression differences weren't greater than 3 bar ? What have you got to loose ? Ok, apart from the catalytic converter, but that may be a cost/benefit calculation.

Is it true that you have to keep a keener eye on car engine oil levels today, because modern engines, even when fully serviceable, use more oil than there pre-decessors of 30 years ago. It seems to me that engine builds/specs today allow far more in terms of oil "Blow-by" than engines of yesterday. My Fab manual says the use of 1 litre of engine oil per 600 miles is within limits ! !!!! My earlier VW Golf of thirty years ago ran on 20W-50 engine oil, as opposed to the lighter 10W-40 of today (which I regard as sewing machine oil) and hardly used a drop between services. 10w-40 in those days was reserved for motorcycle engines which were considered disposable after 30,000 miles. Have car manufacturers taken a leaf out of motorcycle manufactuers book and decided its worth tapping into the excess disposable income of today's consumers ? Not very eco friendly !

Co-incidentally, the EMU light on my Fab came on today. Must have squirted it too quickly past some of the slow-coaches. Money with ladbrookes now, 3 re-starts and its gone.

Nick

Edited 6 May, 201016 yr by Clunkclick

Rebuilding old engines (such as a A series used in Moggies) was never an issue. As for modern engines, I would rather spend double and get a brand new crate motor from VW than have one rebuilt if it has seized. In fact some VW engines can't be reworked in any case, as removing the main end shell caps causes the block to distort.

Cars are moving into the throw away when broken category these days. At one point, you could buy a complete cylinder head for a 1.9TDi cheaper than three PD injectors. The new head comes complete with camshaft/lifters/injectors.

Anyway, a properly rebuilt engine wont cause any further issues.

Modern cars tend to use more oil, as they are often not run in correctly. Despite what it says in the handbook, taking it easy for the first 1000 miles is the worst thing you can do to an engine. The bores glaze up and you get oil blow-by. Any car I have bought new, has been driven out of the dealers, warmed up for 20 minutes, then red lined through the gears on and off for half an hour. This gives better bedding in between the piston rings and the cylinder honing. My previous 1.4 Polo used 200ml of oil between services. VRS is about the same.

To me 1 litre of oil every 600 miles is a leaking oil tanker.

Even my trusty old Moggy only uses about 300ml of oil between services. Most of that leaks out mind rather than being burnt.

Rebuilding old engines (such as a A series used in Moggies) was never an issue. As for modern engines, I would rather spend double and get a brand new crate motor from VW than have one rebuilt if it has seized. In fact some VW engines can't be reworked in any case, as removing the main end shell caps causes the block to distort.

Cars are moving into the throw away when broken category these days. At one point, you could buy a complete cylinder head for a 1.9TDi cheaper than three PD injectors. The new head comes complete with camshaft/lifters/injectors.

Anyway, a properly rebuilt engine wont cause any further issues.

Modern cars tend to use more oil, as they are often not run in correctly. Despite what it says in the handbook, taking it easy for the first 1000 miles is the worst thing you can do to an engine. The bores glaze up and you get oil blow-by. Any car I have bought new, has been driven out of the dealers, warmed up for 20 minutes, then red lined through the gears on and off for half an hour. This gives better bedding in between the piston rings and the cylinder honing. My previous 1.4 Polo used 200ml of oil between services. VRS is about the same.

To me 1 litre of oil every 600 miles is a leaking oil tanker.

Even my trusty old Moggy only uses about 300ml of oil between services. Most of that leaks out mind rather than being burnt.

It appears. This sort of oil consumption is not the exception nowadays.

After 27000 miles, my Fab 16v 100hp (BBZ engine - reportedly no piston ring problems, only the earlier engines ? ) became an oil guzzler. Example, full service in early March this year, oil level on dipstick near top of braided area. Now oil level at bottom of braided area i.e. needs top-up. And I've only done 800 miles. Top to bottom of braided area on dipstick = 1 litre ? All residential motoring, only very occasionally over 40MPH, 3000RPM. VW golf of thirty years ago would have done 3,000 -6,000 miles without any oil loss.

Get occasional EMU light (Once a year) - generally speaking those are spurious electrical errors which when re-set do not re-occur.

Consumption was OK till it went into the body shop for a rear end repair. I reckon someone took it out for a test drive and thrashed it.

From day one, up to 40,000 miles my Fab used to get regular 400 mile round trips (every couple of months) on M4/M5, so you'd have thought that any glazing acquired through residential drive would have been taken-off - not that I'm sedate residential driver any way.

Its now done 47,000 and at least 3 first time pass MOTs since it first started heavily using oil.

It is a bit frightening that this amount of oil could be put out into the environment by an average or slightly worn engine. Lets face it, they are now grounding passenger aircraft for lesser emissions e.g. the BAE 146 and Lycoming engine oil losses.

Postscript

The range of oils for sale doesn't help. Refined, semi-synth, fully synth. It increases the likelihood that the average punter will top-up with the wrong stuff.

I think all cars should go over to fully synth.

Neither does the fact that, despite the proliferation of modern electronics in cars, no cars have an oil level indicator. Something, i nearly fell foul of in my Fab. How diificult can that be to introduce - Ok, readings would have to be adjusted for the 3 -way axial diposition of the chassis, but with modern electronics and software ?

Nick

Edited 8 May, 201016 yr by Clunkclick