Superb Remapped

[vRS Carl]

TED = Time Exposed to Danger

More power = Safer overtaking that is a fact. The problem lies with people assuming they have enough power to overtake and take the risk.

As long as you are happy with your car then that's all that matters. Similarly I'm happy with what I have done to my car as are others.

Life would be pretty boring if we all had the same taste's, opinions etc

[Sup2 Golden Miler]

TED ?

And my gear changes are done by the automatic transmissin, so who cares ? And safety is probably the worst excuse to remap a car, unless it has very little power to begin with... If you need remapping to overtake a car, then you better learn how to drive ! Sorry, I had to...

Not sure about the "if you need remapping to overtake a car ......"

the 105 brake Superb is almost certainly underpowered for a car of its size, I appreciate the Greenline and its purpose

most 2 litre family size modern diesels turn out 130-150 bhp

I am confused by what appears to be so abhorrent to some posters about upgrading an underpowered car to bring up to what is fairly standard in the world today ?

Audi used the same 1.9 TDi unit to produce 130 horses as standard

My comments when I posted were certainly not bragging in any way (139 bhp will not get me a centre page spread in Max Power) but info to other users (who may like me have suspected the 105 may not quite be enough and upon ownership found not such much it was lacking as a number, more where it was found to be lacking in the power delivery) about what is available, how great it is and how much it is so they could as intelligent adults (and they must have some intelligence to have spent their hard earned on the Superb II in the 1st place) could evaluate all of the information and make their own minds up.

My tuppeneth

[ukcruiser]

I bought the 170bhp Superb in Elegance Spec, as i wanted a "Standard Car" - i had to declare the Windows, both tinted and heated - My insurers want over £300 per year additional (that was on my last car, a Kia Sorento, taking power from 138 to 168bhp) premium, to insure the power upgrade. This, i just cant justify, and as the car is used for business use, it needs to be properly insured... 200bhp would be nice, and if it was available, i would have bought the 3L V6 TDi Engine, but, the 170 is more than enough for me.

I dont have a problem with chipping cars, i just cant justify the insurance of the upgrade!

Al.

[G.K.]

I wonder how many drivers are actually honest and open enough to disclose what is, an invisible modification to their insurers.In the event of an accident would they link up your (possibly damaged) car to to dyno or to a computer?? I could see that happening with a VRS Octavia with wheel, suspension and other "go faster" mods but a sedate family version of a Superb (or an Octy) would not be suspected of having a remap (unless you cover it in stickers under the bonnet or something daft like that. The reliablity issue is like a bit of a gamble to be honest. If you buy a second hand car (especially a demo Mannyo !!) these cars tend to be only run in during the PDI test drive to the nearest roundabout, then driven by a host of strangers in all manner of styles, many of which lack mechanical sympathy. I would love to remap the wife Octy (to improve the rotten MPG) but something keeps making me take a step back from it. That is not to say that I do not read all the posts and comments with the greatest of interest.

[vRS Carl]

Well all my mods are declared through Adrian Flux and it costs me less to insure it at Stage 2+ with them than it did standard with more than.

Carl

[Caspian]

TED = Time Exposed to Danger

More power = Safer overtaking that is a fact. The problem lies with people assuming they have enough power to overtake and take the risk.

As long as you are happy with your car then that's all that matters. Similarly I'm happy with what I have done to my car as are others.

Life would be pretty boring if we all had the same taste's, opinions etc

I agree that as long as you are happy with your car and what you have done to it, then that is all that matters.

I am however amused by the assertion that "More power= Safer overtaking that is a fact". That has not been my experience as a passenger watching others drive.

Safe overtaking occurs when people know the capabilities of their cars, whether powerful or not, and allow sufficient space for their overtaking manoever. Some people are more prone to take risks in overtaking than others and would do it whether they have high power cars or low powered ones. Some people who have high powered cars are more prone to take risks because they think their high powered car will get them through.

Safe overtaking, like safe driving in general is not about power, it is about driving within the capabilities of the car and the driver, and in accord with road conditions.

[vRS Carl]

The more power = safer overtaking is a fact as you are exposed to danger for less time.

As I also stated the problem is people not understanding the limit of their cars or their own driving ability.

But if you can get past a slower vehicle quicker ( and I don't mean speeding ) then that makes for a safer overtake. Not on it's own as there are other factors like having the room to do it safely etc. But it's still safer to do it quicker.

Carl

[G.K.]

I totally agree that many drivers have no idea what their cars are capable of and have never explored the potential acceleration in lowert gears. I think all car drivers should learn to ride a motorcycle first!!!.. At least it will encourage them to use loads of harmless revs and correct use of gears instead of this "get into top asap "syndrome.

[Incognito]

Hi,

I just wonder about:

Dealer can check does it been rempaded

Can someone explain this process how?

First need more detail about itself this remap.

1. Which programmer they use or say cables

2. ECU access and data changes do they have any logs?

3. What I mean logs? When we change data in ECU does it have tracking like 1 flash 2 flash and etc?

4. Can we put back original data to ECU after remap without any tracking left to dealer?

5. If we can put back original data so dealer can not know what is where if ECU does not keep logs or hidden something. Do I right ?

6. Basically if I have cables which can flash ECU:

a. I can backup original data

b. Restore original data after need to drive to dealer or else …

7. Remap copy from same car Does it works ?

8. As same engine was remaped so I can not see any differences if I take data changes from remaped car and put on my car

9. Remap garages will say that it is not good etc but I where is the difference it is ?

10. As I can read remaped car flash and compare with my flash and look where is the changes and apply to my car these changes.

The biggest minus I see in remap as DPF problems will be staring.

Most interesting remap itself when DPF active (I mean cleaning smoke not regenerating) how you can track black smoke from the car ? I mean fuel corrected after remap?

The DPF filter on 105 PS works hard - push more acceleration and will be need to regenerate next day.

I drive my self 105 ps car hard (as been little race with another car) and DPF regeneration start next day (as DPF cleaned it self maybe 2 days before – so usually it is take for me 1-2 week before next regeneration).

So I can imagine what can be on ramaped car

Regards

Inco

[veloplus]

Hi,

I just wonder about:

Dealer can check does it been rempaded

Can someone explain this process how?

First need more detail about itself this remap.

1. Which programmer they use or say cables

2. ECU access and data changes do they have any logs?

3. What I mean logs? When we change data in ECU does it have tracking like 1 flash 2 flash and etc?

4. Can we put back original data to ECU after remap without any tracking left to dealer?

5. If we can put back original data so dealer can not know what is where if ECU does not keep logs or hidden something. Do I right ?

6. Basically if I have cables which can flash ECU:

a. I can backup original data

b. Restore original data after need to drive to dealer or else …

7. Remap copy from same car Does it works ?

8. As same engine was remaped so I can not see any differences if I take data changes from remaped car and put on my car

9. Remap garages will say that it is not good etc but I where is the difference it is ?

10. As I can read remaped car flash and compare with my flash and look where is the changes and apply to my car these changes.

The biggest minus I see in remap as DPF problems will be staring.

Most interesting remap itself when DPF active (I mean cleaning smoke not regenerating) how you can track black smoke from the car ? I mean fuel corrected after remap?

The DPF filter on 105 PS works hard - push more acceleration and will be need to regenerate next day.

I drive my self 105 ps car hard (as been little race with another car) and DPF regeneration start next day (as DPF cleaned it self maybe 2 days before – so usually it is take for me 1-2 week before next regeneration).

So I can imagine what can be on ramaped car

Regards

Inco

Fortunately, the boggo 1.9 Tdi 105 has no DPF to complicate the remapping issue.

[Bagpuss]

Hi,

I just wonder about:

Dealer can check does it been rempaded

Can someone explain this process how?

First need more detail about itself this remap.

1. Which programmer they use or say cables

2. ECU access and data changes do they have any logs?

3. What I mean logs? When we change data in ECU does it have tracking like 1 flash 2 flash and etc?

4. Can we put back original data to ECU after remap without any tracking left to dealer?

5. If we can put back original data so dealer can not know what is where if ECU does not keep logs or hidden something. Do I right ?

6. Basically if I have cables which can flash ECU:

a. I can backup original data

b. Restore original data after need to drive to dealer or else …

7. Remap copy from same car Does it works ?

8. As same engine was remaped so I can not see any differences if I take data changes from remaped car and put on my car

9. Remap garages will say that it is not good etc but I where is the difference it is ?

10. As I can read remaped car flash and compare with my flash and look where is the changes and apply to my car these changes.

I had a long chat with the master tech. at my local dealer about this, and the bottom line is that they can detect *ANY* remap if they look closely enough. Even if you put the original ECU code in place, there will be tell tale signs that the engine has been running with parameters outside of the accepted norm for the standard programming.

An obvious example of this is boost pressure. The ECU keeps a log of the maximum boost pressure that has been achieved. On a remapped car, this will typically be higher. Of course, this relies on the dealership staff knowing what the 'normal' value is so they can compare it to an 'abnormal' value.

Also, most ECUs now have a flash counter, which increments every time new code is flashed. The dealer network knows how many times your ECU has been flashed officially, so if they see a higher number, they know that someone has been messing about. Some tuners are able to reset this flash counter, but the manufacturers are making it harder to do on each ECU revision.

No matter what any of the tuners say, I believe that someone who knows the car will be able to detect that it has been remapped. That will be more difficult to prove if the remap has been removed when you take it in for servicing, but there will still be tell tale signs. Of course, you could use something like VAG-COM to reset any fault logs etc., but that also leaves a trace. The dealership will be expecting to find a log trail that covers the period since you last had the car serviced. If you've blanked it, then it's obvious that someone has been messing around with the car.

If you are going to get a remap, be aware of the risks and benefits. For some, the benefits outweigh the risks. For other, not.

I've decided to leave my car standard, as my company insurance would be void if it was ever detected. I simply can't take the risk.

It also helps to find a remap friendly dealer. My local garage have always turned a blind eye to remaps, unless the damage was obviously related.

As far as ECU code is concerned, then you need to be careful. There can be multiple variants across the same model and engine. Most tuners these days will read the code from your ECU, compare it with cars they've seen before, and then supply you an appropriate remap. You can't simply assume that code for one car is cross compatible with another, although it will usually be true.

Bagpuss.

[NeilS]

I had a long chat with the master tech. at my local dealer about this, and the bottom line is that they can detect *ANY* remap if they look closely enough. Even if you put the original ECU code in place, there will be tell tale signs that the engine has been running with parameters outside of the accepted norm for the standard programming.

An obvious example of this is boost pressure. The ECU keeps a log of the maximum boost pressure that has been achieved. On a remapped car, this will typically be higher. Of course, this relies on the dealership staff knowing what the 'normal' value is so they can compare it to an 'abnormal' value.

Also, most ECUs now have a flash counter, which increments every time new code is flashed. The dealer network knows how many times your ECU has been flashed officially, so if they see a higher number, they know that someone has been messing about. Some tuners are able to reset this flash counter, but the manufacturers are making it harder to do on each ECU revision.

No matter what any of the tuners say, I believe that someone who knows the car will be able to detect that it has been remapped. That will be more difficult to prove if the remap has been removed when you take it in for servicing, but there will still be tell tale signs. Of course, you could use something like VAG-COM to reset any fault logs etc., but that also leaves a trace. The dealership will be expecting to find a log trail that covers the period since you last had the car serviced. If you've blanked it, then it's obvious that someone has been messing around with the car.

If you are going to get a remap, be aware of the risks and benefits. For some, the benefits outweigh the risks. For other, not.

I've decided to leave my car standard, as my company insurance would be void if it was ever detected. I simply can't take the risk.

It also helps to find a remap friendly dealer. My local garage have always turned a blind eye to remaps, unless the damage was obviously related.

As far as ECU code is concerned, then you need to be careful. There can be multiple variants across the same model and engine. Most tuners these days will read the code from your ECU, compare it with cars they've seen before, and then supply you an appropriate remap. You can't simply assume that code for one car is cross compatible with another, although it will usually be true.

Bagpuss.

Imagine if just 10% of all the VAG marque dealers in the UK somehow managed to spot a remap, wouldn't forums like this be inundated with tales of chest beating grief, woe and warranty avoidance isssues? How may remapped cars from VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda pass through the dealer network for routine servicing and get "spotted?" None of mine over many years which include a Passat, a Fabia VrS and an Octavia VRS all serviced by main dealers with 180,000 miles covered between them. I'd be more worried about the insurance company assessing a totalled vRS valued at £10k taking an extra few minutes to plug in their laptop with VAGCOM to check the ECU just incase it's been tinkered with to opt out of their liability.

Edited 18 May, 2010 by NeilS

[Bagpuss]

Imagine if just 10% of all the VAG marque dealers in the UK somehow managed to spot a remap, wouldn't forums like this be inundated with tales of chest beating grief, woe and warranty avoidance isssues? How may remapped cars from VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda pass through the dealer network for routine servicing and get "spotted?" None of mine over many years which include a Passat, a Fabia VrS and an Octavia VRS all serviced by main dealers with 180,000 miles covered between them. I'd be more worried about the insurance company assessing a totalled vRS valued at £10k taking an extra few minutes to plug in their laptop with VAGCOM to check the ECU just incase it's been tinkered with to opt out of their liability.

I'm sure that way more than 10% do spot remapped cars. They simply don't make an issue of it unless the parts being claimed for might have failed due to the remap. From discussions with my local dealer, or more specifically, their master tech., I'm lead me to believe that he is aware of quite a number of remapped cars passing through their doors. He just doesn't make an issue of it.

Let's be honest, the dealer wants your business, and they get paid by Skoda UK for any warranty work they undertake. I used to drive an Octy L+K 140PD DSG, which had been a pool car where I work. I was 99% certain that a previous driver had remapped the car. This was only confirmed when the DSG gearbox went up in smoke, and the dealer spotted the remap. Did they make a fuss? Of course not, as they wanted the money from Skoda for a very expensive DSG replacement. They were happy, I was happy, and Skoda were none the wiser.

As you say, it's the insurance implications which concern me far more. If I wasn't driving on company insurance, then I'd remap my Superb without any second thoughts.

Bagpuss.

[halflife1973]

All the talk of warranty is interesting and I would not personally take the risk.

Having said that the people who have done it have spend their own hard earned cash on the car and the re-map so I guess it is up to them. It is certainly interesting to hear the kinds of power increases they get.

I have a CR170, the thing I have notice about it is that it does not really drive like a typical diesel, more like a petrol to be honest with a fairly flat delivery once the turbo has kicked in. Does the re-map alter this at all giving you that Diesel shove in the back that I'm used to from the PD engine I had in a 140 golf?

[vRS Carl]

All the talk of warranty is interesting and I would not personally take the risk.

Having said that the people who have done it have spend their own hard earned cash on the car and the re-map so I guess it is up to them. It is certainly interesting to hear the kinds of power increases they get.

I have a CR170, the thing I have notice about it is that it does not really drive like a typical diesel, more like a petrol to be honest with a fairly flat delivery once the turbo has kicked in. Does the re-map alter this at all giving you that Diesel shove in the back that I'm used to from the PD engine I had in a 140 golf?

Depends on who remaps it. Most good ones like Shark Performance etc the answer is no. You will just have the same flat delivery it will just be quicker due to higher lb/ft