Has anyone seen this thread:

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/173162-this-will-be-controversial-i-know/

I find these two comments interesting:

Hmmm... So one should not use supermarket fuel ever! Hmmm.

This comment is quite explanatory:

"Hi Paully, yes...you are quite right about the fuel thing. It's not in your head...the improvement thing. Supermarket petrol is inferior using only secondary cleaners in it, and fewer 'sniffers' which may cause some cars to run rougher and carbon up more quickly. It's fairly common knowledge in the trade, has been reported on by the motoring press many times, and has been an issue for quite a few years now. But it is begining to become even more important with cars like the TSI's and many many more.

The thing to remember is this...when you change fuel, perhaps to experiment with mpg or engine smoothness, performance etc, make sure you don't make any judgements about the fuel until you have allowed your car to consume at least two tankfuls of the new fuel. YES, TWO TANKFULS! The reason for this is that modern cars have a 'LEARNING ECU'. It detects differences in fuel being used especially the octane rating. It does this using the closed loop system to analyse the exhaust gases and the information from the knock sensors. However, it will not change the engine settings to allow the car to optimally run on the new fuel until two tanks of the stuff have been consumed. Then bingo, it'll either run like a turbine or be as crappy as hell!

If you vehicle has been running on supermarket fuel for a while, putting in Shell, which is much superior to anything else pretty much, will often make you engine run badly for the duration of the first tank. This happens because the extra powerful cleaners (1st & 2nd grade cleaners) start to remove the carbon and gum build up inside the fuel system and engine. This just makes the car run rougher. But the second tank will start to make it run not just ok, but better than ever. Many people think the roughness is being actually caused by the new higher quality fuel and don't buy it again, going back to the poorer quality supermarket petrol. Shame, if only they persisted, the reward would be well worth it. "

And the best bit:

"Hi thirty3, yeah...sounds a bit funny eh. What happens is this, firstly all petrol is the same when it flows from the refinery tanks into the delivery tankers. When the drivers have loaded there new fuel for delivery the worksheet will tell them who it's for and what chemicals to add. It's these chemicals that make the difference. Supermarket fuel, because it's cheap, gets one type of chemical containing minimal cleaning and sniffer agents. Whilst Total, Esso and the other brand leaders get other chemicals, each of course to their own spec. It used to be that the drivers themselves added the chemicals by dropping self dissolving sealed bags of the stuff into each tank onboard the tankers after taking on the load. I'm not sure if that's still completely the case but the principle is not doubt still the same for most of the companies. I used to visit the Canvy island terminals regularly on business and would see the drivers doing just this. Had it all explained to me. "

Is that true?!!? The tanker driver ads the bits?!?! Wow... I wonder...

Anyone experienced different behaviour in their Yetis? And is this also the case for diesel or just more noticable on high output smaller petrol engines?

I have used both the Super Diesel and regular diesel in Germany, and have not been able to discern any difference.

I used to work for an oil company, deliveries of heating fuel, diesel to hauliers, farmers etc, and we used to work out of a storage site in Sunderland. What the above quotes say are quite true. Different oil companies will pull out of the same storage depots, same tanks, same fuel.

In the NE for example I am pretty sure that there is now only one fuel storage site to service the whole area. Whichever petrol station you fill up from in this area the fuel will all have come from one source and NO there are not Jet, Shell, Esso, Asda, Tesco etc tanks on a storage site. They ALL fill from the same place. As is pointed out the driver puts in an additive as they fill their tanker and that is the difference between any of the makes.

You really want to see the size of the wooden spoon they use to mix the additive in with.

Incidentally I have no idea if any type is better than another, that is not an experiment I have ever bothered with.

Edited 27 September, 201015 yr by EdmundBlackadder

As someone who used to work in an oil refinery several years ago, I can confirm the tanker drivers did indeed put the additives in themselves.

How it works these days, I don't know.

Wow. So if said driver has a bad hangover or mixes in the wrong bag you could be getting some funny fuel!

I always thought these additives that the big names advertise where nonsense (as it all comes from the same depot somewhere). I'll have to keep better fuel records when the Yeti comes to be able to accurately compare these things - supermarket vs named stations.

I remember a few years ago there was a huge national outcry about Tesco petrol with a lot of drivers complaining that after they had filled up their cars were pinking when they hadn't before, anyone remember that ?

Trouble is how do you know what you are putting in your car ??

Interesting. But everyone goes on about supermarket vs branded petrol, and never seems to mention another important factor - the underground tanks that store that petrol in the stations. Does anyone (e.g., trading standards?) ever check what comes out of the pump for moisture or contaminants due to the storage tanks?

When I last had my vRS in for service, the garage added an anti-bacterial product to the fuel tank as they said it would help guard against algae that develop in petrol station storage tanks. Wasn't quite sure whether to believe them or not, but they did it as a free promotion, so I wasn't too concerned :-)

There was a similar thread about this in one of the general sections recently to which I posted a reply, since my father was a manager of an Esso Bulk Plant that filled tankers for various companies, from Shell to Tesco's.

Nowadays the additives are computer controlled:

Tanker pulls in,

Loading details in-put into computer,

Relevant fuel pumped

Additives as specified added.

Also added are chemical tracers and dyes, showing:

who manufactured

who resold

whether tax has been paid.

Typically supermarkets do not add anti-smoke agents or anti-foaming agents to their diesels, or cleaners to their petrols.

When Trading Standards check a retailer they check for quality and measure. Water presence is generally checked with a simple solution and "litmus" type check. Not sure about the "diesel bug" additive, it generally isn't a problem with road fuel as it is used up quickly, but is a problem on boats that are used irregularly. It "grows" in any water that is present, and also seems to like high percentage bio-diesel that hasn't been well made.

Edited 27 September, 201015 yr by Llanigraham

Nowadays the additives are computer controlled:

Tanker pulls in,

Loading details in-put into computer,

Relevant fuel pumped

Additives as specified added.

Ah that takes the driver with the hungover nicely out of the equation! Makes much more sense to me now.

There was a similar thread about this in one of the general sections recently to which I posted a reply, since my father was a manager of an Esso Bulk Plant that filled tankers for various companies, from Shell to Tesco's.

Nowadays the additives are computer controlled:

Tanker pulls in,

Loading details in-put into computer,

Relevant fuel pumped

Additives as specified added.

Also added are chemical tracers and dyes, showing:

who manufactured

who resold

whether tax has been paid.

Typically supermarkets do not add anti-smoke agents or anti-foaming agents to their diesels, or cleaners to their petrols.

When Trading Standards check a retailer they check for quality and measure. Water presence is generally checked with a simple solution and "litmus" type check. Not sure about the "diesel bug" additive, it generally isn't a problem with road fuel as it is used up quickly, but is a problem on boats that are used irregularly. It "grows" in any water that is present, and also seems to like high percentage bio-diesel that hasn't been well made.

So are you saying that you are in agreement about not using tankfuls of supermarket petrol for the first few tankfuls until the engine is run in ?

Our local Shell station is cheaper than the Tesco - so no contest and I get "driver points".

I was told by a garage manager that supermarket petrol came originally from Russia and was contaminated with water. Such is the stuff of legends.

Fascinating thread Yeti people. I always use Texaco because it is the closest 'branded' station to my house and I collect the reward points for fuel vouchers. They advertise their fuel as one that promotes cleaner engine running.

So are you saying that you are in agreement about not using tankfuls of supermarket petrol for the first few tankfuls until the engine is run in ?

I wont use supermarket fuels AT ALL, unless there is no other option, and actively keep away from Tesco's because of their trading methods.

The few times I had to use supermarket fuel in the Freelander I found that my fuel consumption was noticably worse. Plus the nearest garages to me are either Texaco or BP.

However, everyone has free choice to do what they want.

An aside; when my Dad worked for Esso he would never buy their fuel. He was at their Avonmouth Depot one day when C & E raided the place. Every vehicle in the place had their tanks dipped, and each owner was told what fuel was in their tanks. If it was Esso they were asked to produce evidence of where it had been bought from. It was found that a tanker driver had been "short measuring" deliveries and then flogging off the "residue" to a dodgy garage... they both went down!! Never argue with the Customs Officers!!!

Edited 27 September, 201015 yr by Llanigraham

Our local Shell station is cheaper than the Tesco - so no contest and I get "driver points".

I was told by a garage manager that supermarket petrol came originally from Russia and was contaminated with water. Such is the stuff of legends.

A few years ago I had a problem with the motorbike I had at the time. After filling it with fuel at Tescos it stopped running shortly afterwards.

After pushing it to the local dealer (1 1/2 miles) they drained the system etc, charged me £120 and said the fuel was contaminated with water (from Tescos)

I have not bought from Tescos since unless in an emergency (or any other supermarket.)

I also use shell & used v power diesel in my chipped Octy.

Mike

For further interesting reading look at Media>>Fuel Testing here http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/media/