Uprated SMIC from BAM engine

[G-slave]

Hi

I would possibly be able to buy a cheap one of these. As it is coming of a BAM engine, I was wondering:

1. Will it fit on a Octavia 1U5 chassis, (ie replace the OE SMIC mounted on an AUQ

2. Will there be tangible improvements?

3. Pipework changes?

4. I am assuming no software changes are needed, but it's always better to check

[SideshowBob]

Is there actually any difference between the BAM and the AUQ SMICs? As far as I was aware the BAM models carried 2 x SMICS which would lead me to suspect they're the same, with just the second IC making the difference.

[Oet]

not an ideal setup, extra pipework equals more lag, bam has intake on the other side to auq, so pipework routes differently, to retrofit to auq would require complicated routing of pipes.

Fit uprated smic or fmic

[karlbar2k]

HI Luca

on the subject of uprated SMIC when is Millsey about?

Karl

[G-slave]

HI Luca

on the subject of uprated SMIC when is Millsey about?

Karl

yep been reading that thread as well. Looking for uprated SMIC really.

need list of options

investigate facts and research

commit to price

bite the bullet

[Oet]

alright karl,

will message him for you..

[Bowders1]

Hi

I would possibly be able to buy a cheap one of these. As it is coming of a BAM engine, I was wondering:

1. Will it fit on a Octavia 1U5 chassis, (ie replace the OE SMIC mounted on an AUQ

2. Will there be tangible improvements?

3. Pipework changes?

4. I am assuming no software changes are needed, but it's always better to check

Hi there, as been stated if you are referring to using that BAM SMIC to replace your OEM VRS SMIC you will get no difference as it is the same part.

But as also mentioned the BAM engine has two SMIC's, one each side of the bumper.

So if you are thinking of updating your VRS to using both Side mounts then the job can be done and will fit but you need to do a bit of work as you need to replace the inlet manifold to accomade the routing from the second BAM SMIC and also use the additional pipework..(throttle body on different side)

So you may be better off getting a forge unprated SMIC or similar or a FMIC. Depends on what you performance route is and your bugdet.

ECS did some work testing twin SMIC you may find useful

here is a extract from there work. there link here http://www.18turbo.com/18t-intercoolersX.html#test

ECS Tuning - Dual Intercooler TESTs (many thanks goes to Ari @ cosmicmotorsports.com)

Disclaimer: Before you read this please take note that this testing was done by Ari and a friend whom are NOT affiliated with ECS Tuning or any other specific tuner or 18turbo.com. We are a customer to these tuners, just like all of you. Furthermore, the testing was done in the fashion explained below. Please utilize this information as you see fit, but lets keep this thread clean and productive. Thank you!

FINAL RESULTS : Stock Intercooler vs Dual-Intercooler Testing!

Test Method : Driving on the freeway only, at speeds never below 50MPH, we attemped to heat soak the intercoolers. Testing was to be done at 55º F or better, and was to be a non-stop boost/brake/boost/brake routine. We ran from 50MPH to 120MPH (average, see data), slammed the brakes, and repeat. The goal was to get the IC to drop in overall efficiency.

Location, Etc : The testing was done in Akron, Ohio which is about 45 mins south of Cleveland. Testing was done in my 2001 VW GTI GLS 1.8T (for a full list of modifications the car has please refer to the link in my signature). This is all with a stock AWW-turbo from my car. The ECU on the car is from APR in Auburn, AL. The largest spikes we saw were in the 1.3x bar range, with boost holding nice at roughly .98-1.00 bar through the range, and dropping off up near redline. This is the 93-octane v1.1 program.

STOCK Intercooler Results : The stock intercooler had an average efficiency of 70.29% when driving. This is truly not bad at all. For those of you who are not sure if you want to spend the cash, I'd dare say the stock IC is doing you justice. Anything over 70% is not bad at all, and initially I was REALLY worried the dual-IC wouldnt be much better than this. The stock IC, however, soaked nicely towards the end of our runs (see data link). In a road-race condition, the stock IC would start to be "less than ideal" I felt.

DUAL-INTERCOOLER Results : The dual-IC was installed by ECS Tuning and is a kit put together by EuroSpecSport of which ECS is a dealer for them. The kit consists of a 2nd IC, Manifold, Etc. from a TT225 which uses two IC's in series. This setup can be found on any 225HP version of the Audi TT, so the parts are OEM in essence. The Dual-IC really suprised me because I felt you would get 80-85% efficiency. Instead, however the dual-intercooler setup was constantly over 90% efficiency, with an overall average of 93.49% !!!

Conclusions : Rather than bore you all with more rambling, I'll let you scroll down to click on the test data link. See it for yourself, it is all there in black and white. The dual-IC works, and works VERY well! Sometimes when on the freeway just cruising for long times, the IC works at 100% and its just amazing. And when pushed, the dual-IC works nicely too.

If you want to upgrade your intercooler this kit works! There is probably some pressure drop, but we didnt see the turbo putting out exceedingly high temps and it was hotter the 2nd time, so lets face it, all the talk about pressure drop and whatnot, its negligable. We saw next to no boost lag, and the turbo didn't appear to be working to the point of destruction. If it was good enough for Audi for the 225HP TT, its good enough for me. And I dare say, good enough for you too! Cheers everyone!

[G-slave]

Thanks for getting back to me.

ok so the BAM intercooler is not an option, I suppose really what I am asking is whether VAG do sell/produce and SMIC which will outperform the one found on an Octavia Mk1.

Certainly don't want to give Forge silly money, nor will I need a FMIC, as not going to change Turbo. Just looking at helping the Ko3s a little.

£250 for a straight swap and proven increase in efficiency? Does that sound reasonable?

Still confused as to why we should stick with an Air-to-Air cooling system; I thought this was not very effective, then again no idea really. Would it not be better to use a liquid as a heat convector?

[Guest westallc]

no there is nothing apart from the uprated forge sidemount wich will offer better cooling or front mount for even better cooling

p.s why you talk about not changing the turbo it makes no difference the better you can cool the charged air the better the performance wether on a k03s or a gt30 imo to get the most out of the k03 you deffo need a front mount as it suffers from terrible heat soak thus front mount helps with this issue massivley

[G-slave]

I would have to admit and say the installation of the FMIC and the modification of crash bar are beyond my budget. An uprated SMIC seems to be my chosen option, but Forge is just too dear.

Which brings me to a next option, which is to look for 'water mist' system, coupled to a timer (or a volatile liquid which would not ignite, explode or otherwise damage the car, its ocupants or environment. I was thinking this could be sprayed onto the IC and hence extract the heat by evaporation.

finaly, has anybody ever fitted a radiator fan at the back of the IC (which would probably classify as 'the pikey mod' but then for ICs)

ah, dunno really

[karlbar2k]

some of the Japanese cars seem to go for adding fans to the IC - can really help when the car is stationary at lights etc as this is when you will see temps rising after a blast. You can get an improvement on the IC performance by carefully cleaning it, inside gets full of oil and gunk from the crank case gases and the turbo, outside gets full of debris and they oxidize as well, you can also vent the wheel arch liner to improve air flow. There are a few options for uprated Side mount Intercoolers, but you have to get them shipped in from the states.

[Oet]

its not really need for stock ko3s setup, misting or another fan is not worth doing to a stock IC.

Better to change to a more efficient IC instead, if you are then looking to reduce intake temps further, a water meth kit is the way ahead. Will help engine run cooler, reduce pre detonation and increase performance.

[G-slave]

ok so uprated SMIC;

what options do I have?

1. Group buy Eurojet?

2. Milsey's project

[Guest westallc]

option 3

clean yours, do the pikey mod to the arch liner and then vag com som intake logs and see what its doing might be surficient for your style of driving and uprating may not in your case be worth it if that makes sense

[karlbar2k]

also worth checking for boost and vac leaks on the standard system as these will rob you of power as well

[vrs180]

ECS did some work testing twin SMIC you may find useful

Useful.......yes but only if you need a good laugh

Even the very best designed, money no object air to air IC's would struggle to achieve 95-100% TE.

The only effect way to cool charge air down to or below ambient air temp is to use a cooling medium cooler than ambient air.

Bill.

[Oet]

an ice making factory in the boot pumping absolute kelvin temperature to the IC

[urbanfox]

Water injection or a larger intercooler are the best ways.

Have to be careful with Methanol as it is corrosive to Aluminium.