It's not my car, but the parents. We've still got the hard to start when cold problem that we were having last year. It was better during the summer, but still didn't start straight away... needed a few cranks before it would spring to life. Now it's getting much colder, it's getting much harder to start again.

My own will be needing the cam belt done soon, and so I questioned as to the last time theirs was done, as the cars have similar mileage on them at > 100k. They've never changed it since they've had it - and whether or not it was done at 60k I don't know.

So, a simple question for you experts: would a worn / stretched cam belt (lets assume it's somehow NEVER been changed) cause difficulty in starting, more so during the colder periods?

Lots of other things have been checked and replaced and have made no difference, such as:

- Glow plugs weren't working - a big fuse on the battery had a hairline crack and was replaced. Working again now.

- Various relays and sensors have been replaced with new / revised parts.

- Tandem pump was the older part and had a leaking seal, replaced with revised part.

- In tank fuel pump replaced with a new part - old one was quite grimey.

- I've tried secretly bunging in some Millers to see if it's dirty injectors or something ;-)

- Fuel / air / oil filters have all been replaced.

I have also noticed that their engine (PD100) is a lot quieter than mine (PD130). The diesel clatter is really smooth, and not nailey like mine is. I think I read this could also be a symptom of bad timing?

Cheers,

Mark

Edited 24 November, 201015 yr by mark.r.cullen

An update:

I convinced them to get their cam belt + water pump done. It was done yesterday. Still very difficult to start this morning :-(

An update:

I convinced them to get their cam belt + water pump done. It was done yesterday. Still very difficult to start this morning :-(

When you say 'very difficult' what exactly do you mean?

Cold weather has some pretty drastic effects on diesel engines starting. Firstly sub-zero temps will cause the battery to lose a lot of life, making the car seem like its struggling to start but in reality its the battery thats basically flat (-er than normal). Also the cold temperatures affect the engine in different ways. Diesel thickens in very cold weather, and the glowplugs take longer to warm up making starting more difficult.

Make sure you wait for the curly wire light to turn off in the morning for the best chance of a quick start. Unfortunatly cold weather really shows up if your battery is near the end of its life.

The Bosch S4 in my car is in decent nick, but it still doesn't like starting when it's below zero. Two cycles on the glowplugs seems to make a huge difference. I'm not sure how the ECU knows when the glowplugs have warmed up enough, but if it's to do with resistance changes, its possible that they might get warm enough themselves, but this heat dissipates very quickly into the mass of the engine...

Works for me, whatever the real reason...

the Girlfriends mk5 golf PD100 did exactly the same.

when we had the last pout of snow it just did not start........ mechinics and ppl in the know where saing, fuel pump, starter motor, relay......

I steped in and said. lets just change the battery, everything else is fine when it starts.......

£60 later

Its even cured the existing problem she had of chugged over a wile when doing a warm start.

Change the Battery!

Edited 17 December, 201015 yr by vRSsunroof

By very difficult I mean it sits there cranking for a good 10 seconds, then splutters in to life. It never starts on the key any more though, even in Summer it needs some cranking to get going. It's just a heck of a lot worse when it's cold. Once it's been running for 10 minutes or so it'll start fine for the rest of the day though.

As opposed to mine... which starts on the key, even in the weather we've been having recently!

There's something not right with it, but we're at a loss as to what it is. It had a brand new battery not so long a go too.

Dosnet mean the battry hasnt failed. Thats why they tend to come with the longer than manufactures warranty. Get a tester on it.

does it turn over slowly, could be a lazy starter??

Has the timing belt been done correctly by a garage that knows the PD engine?

Dosnet mean the battry hasnt failed. Thats why they tend to come with the longer than manufactures warranty. Get a tester on it.

It didn't make any difference when the battery was brand new. I suppose we could swap my battery in. It should fit?

does it turn over slowly, could be a lazy starter??

I've suggested that. I'm not really sure if it's turning slowly though. It doesn't sound like it to me. Is there any way to test or is it a case of pouring more money at it and hoping for the best?

Has the timing belt been done correctly by a garage that knows the PD engine?

Yep!

If turns over well could be glowplugs although my PD 130 will fire up before the glow light goes off instantly even in minus three temperatures. Maybe something with the fuel pump or (I really hope not) the injectors: Good Luck!

If turns over well could be glowplugs although my PD 130 will fire up before the glow light goes off instantly even in minus three temperatures. Maybe something with the fuel pump or (I really hope not) the injectors: Good Luck!

We've completely replaced the in tank fuel pump and tandem pump. I don't think it's glow plugs, as the first start of the day during summer is still difficult. I think they have checked glow plugs are working as well.

We have thought injectors before too... hmm.... wonder if we can get some from a breaking Fabia for cheap.

I've just had VCDS out as they are now having random alarm problems.

Compared to mine their Specified SOI looks quite high, but I am not sure if it is normal / acceptable. Mine was sat at 1 / 2 degrees BTDC, where as theirs is 7 / 8 degrees BTDC. Though mine was warmer as I had just arrived home, where as theirs has been sat for a few hours and had cooled down.

Also, on the first start it took a couple of seconds to crank and was at about 125rpm before it sprang in to life. The interior lights dimmed before it sprang in to life.

The cambelt was recently changed, though this had no effect on starting performance.

Does this sound like a sensible order for diagnosing the problem?

1. New battery, or a jump start from my car whilst it is cold to see if that improves anything. Eliminates battery?

2. Recondition or new starter motor to make sure it's not a lazy starter. Eliminates starter motor?

3. Get the timing checked out by someone in the know. I don't really know how this is set on the PD's. I seem to remember it was automatically set somehow, and it would only be too far retarded / advanced if the belt had jumped?

Rather than change the battery over, why not try and use a set of jump leads. Double power, see if that makes any difference!

Rather than change the battery over, why not try and use a set of jump leads. Double power, see if that makes any difference!

Yeah, might well do that one morning this week. I'm only home half of the time so it makes it a bit difficult.

We do have a jump start pack thing we could try though :-)

I've just had VCDS out as they are now having random alarm problems.

Compared to mine their Specified SOI looks quite high, but I am not sure if it is normal / acceptable. Mine was sat at 1 / 2 degrees BTDC, where as theirs is 7 / 8 degrees BTDC. Though mine was warmer as I had just arrived home, where as theirs has been sat for a few hours and had cooled down.

Also, on the first start it took a couple of seconds to crank and was at about 125rpm before it sprang in to life. The interior lights dimmed before it sprang in to life.

The cambelt was recently changed, though this had no effect on starting performance.

Does this sound like a sensible order for diagnosing the problem?

1. New battery, or a jump start from my car whilst it is cold to see if that improves anything. Eliminates battery?

2. Recondition or new starter motor to make sure it's not a lazy starter. Eliminates starter motor?

3. Get the timing checked out by someone in the know. I don't really know how this is set on the PD's. I seem to remember it was automatically set somehow, and it would only be too far retarded / advanced if the belt had jumped?

I thought you said the cam belt had been done by someone who knows the pd engine?

It needs to be set correctly with the pulleys locked in place as the camshaft pulley is adjustable. I had the belt done on SWMBOs 1.4 TDI by a garage who was not too familiar with the engine and we have had all kinds of problems with cold starting, engine management lights etc.. I have finished up replacing two engine speed sensors and the battery and finished up resetting the timing myself in the end. It is better, but its still not quite right.

Having said that I would also give the jump starting idea a go to rule out the battery, which could also be the cause of the alarm problems.

Edited 31 January, 201115 yr by ExAudiSi

I thought you said the cam belt had been done by someone who knows the pd engine?

It needs to be set correctly with the pulleys locked in place as the camshaft pulley is adjustable. I had the belt done on SWMBOs 1.4 TDI by a garage who was not too familiar with the engine and we have had all kinds of problems with cold starting, engine management lights etc.. I have finished up replacing two engine speed sensors and the battery and finished up resetting the timing myself in the end. It is better, but its still not quite right.

Having said that I would also give the jump starting idea a go to rule out the battery, which could also be the cause of the alarm problems.

Hi,

It was done recently by a friend of the family. Bear in mind that I personally don't know much about cars, hence me asking. This doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't know what he is doing though B-) the very same friend changed the belt on our old octavia, and that was fine. I think the parents regret selling it with the troubles they have had with this fabia :-( maybe he doesn't know... which is why I ask if 8 degrees is a lot out of spec?

Will get them to try a jump start one morning and see how that goes.

We have tried a lot of stuff to get the car right, so they are unfortunately not so easily convinced to try things any more.

I'm going to state it in this morning and see how fast the starter spins hopefully.

I hooked it up this morning and kept it on Engine Block 4 to look at the RPMs.

It took a good 10 seconds of turning to start, and the starter motor was apparently only spinning at 125RPM up until it started, where it shot to ~250RPM for a split second and then sprung in to life. It sounded a bit weak turning over.

I've told them to try the jump start pack tomorrow morning, and if it's not that we'll get the starter reconditioned / replaced :yes:

They decided to get the starter reconditioned.

They said it was very worn and wasn't turning quickly at all. And that there was a copper bush or something in the gearbox (I don't know the specifics!) That could have caused some damage if it'd moved.

Tomorrow will tell if it's sorted. I suspect it will be :-)

Hi,did you get this problem solved as I am having exactly the same issue with mine?

Any help will be much appreciated. Also I just want to mention that few weeks ago I decided to replace all glow plugs and changed three of them but one did not want to come out and is just turning but not coming out and can't be tightened either.The car is not losing compression or anything but I am wondering if this is why the car is not starting easy first thing in the morning.

Any other time after the first start is absolutely perfect and the car starts on half turn.

I have spoken to some people and they say that it may not have enough fuel for the first start but I don't think this is the case as I have also replaced the low pressure fuel pump and can hear it working when I turn the key.

If anyone is able to shed some light in this I would really appreciate.

Edited 15 January, 201313 yr by bacheto

what battery is in it at the mo? You need something with 70Ah IIRC. Check it and get it drop-tested.

Hi and thanks for this suggestion but the battery is really good and is 72Ah.The engine is not turning slowly and the dashboard lights are not dimming when I crank to start it.

I don't know what the problem is but it is just the first start in the morning after this it starts on half turn of the key every time.

I've heard that people are having problems starting when hot but I don't, just the first start and it drives me absolutely mad at what it is as this morning I had to let the glow plugs heat three times before the car started.