Had a terrible time getting out of the drive this morning. As soon as I tried to reverse up the slope the wheelspin slewed the front end across towards a 6 inch drop while I was trying to get between 2 stone posts. There was less than 1 inch of snow, compacted in places and even after digging it out I got wheelspin on every last unscraped patch. Backing off the power only served to stop progress completely. No flashing ESP light to show the traction control was working. Does traction control work in reverse?

Anyone got any tips for driving an Auto in these conditions - never had trouble with any of 4 or 5 manual cars - just gently fed in the power with the clutch and climbed out of the drive.

Compared to the last Octy (an ASR equipped 1.9TDi manual) this new ESP equipped 1.8 TSi DSG is nowhere near as good from a traction point of view. I guess this will in part be down to the lighter engine, wider tyres, and DSG box. On the hill up to my house last year the 1.9TDi just growled its way up on the compacted snow and no matter what I did to the throttle it kept dead straight with the odd flicker of the ASR light. The only time I had problems was when there was 4 inches of fresh snow. As soon as any wheel slip occurs in this one the front slews slightly from side to side until you back off the throttle.

Do you have winter tires? Can you start in second gear with DSG in manual selection? Shame there is no "winter" button on DSG box, that usually starts the car on 2'nd gear for smoother wheel-spin free start.

Do you have winter tires? Can you start in second gear with DSG in manual selection? Shame there is no "winter" button on DSG box, that usually starts the car on 2'nd gear for smoother wheel-spin free start.

You can't pull away in 2nd in a DSG, the software doesn't let you.

However, I've yet to come across a mainstream car that has 2 reverse gears

I got my DSG last winter in the bad weather we had and found that just letting the car start moving by itself was the best method, then very gently applying the throttle once it has started moving.

I also found reversing up the drive was easier than going forwards (at that time I live in flats with a fairly steep ramp from the road to the car park)

Do you have winter tires? Can you start in second gear with DSG in manual selection? Shame there is no "winter" button on DSG box, that usually starts the car on 2'nd gear for smoother wheel-spin free start.

No winter tyres! Spent more than I intended on the car back in October and cash is tight :(

DSG won't allow selection of 2nd for start off - only 1st. But in any case I was reversing out of the drive. Didn't even think to dig out the inch of snow as I've never had a problem before even with 2-3 inches.

I learnt pretty quick to put it in manual for climbing the hill up to the house - there is a sharp left hander half way up and in "D" backing off to take it in the snow caused hesitation as it changed 3 to 2 but worse it hesitated going 2-3 just as I hit the steepest part only for it to go back 3-2 losing all momentum. 2nd time I did what I did in the manual cars - 2nd gear, steady 10-15mph all the way up with no dramas.

I could try to reverse into the drive but I am going across a slope with the danger of sliding sideways into a stone pillar. The council provide a grit bin but some eejut has used the entire contents already - besides grit on the drive gets trodden into the house. Guess I will have to dig it out down to the bare tarmac every time.

Generally all the safety-net electronics work fine irrespective of which direction you're travelling in. IIRC its because they need to work even if you're spinning..

I had the opportunity to drive the crap out of someone else's S500 at the Mercedes World place a few weeks ago - including on the wet handling areas. We specifically drove the thing out of shape in reverse to see what would happen - all the electronic still work and it does what it can to stop the slide/ spin .

n.b. traction control and esp are separate systems.

Edit to add: just spent the weekend at my bro's house - he's up in yorkshire and we had a bit of snow - his drive is also pretty steep. I always park facing UP the slope, that way you can use 2nd gear if you need. Its also a good idea to chuck some salt just infront of the wheels or scrape away in front of the tyres before you try to drive out - that way you don't compact the snow (which will then turn to solid ice..)

Edited 29 November, 201015 yr by rob_e

you can get some "ice-melt" at your local DIY store and mix it with cat-litter, done it here for where my nan lives for the last 5 years as the council evern come out and grit anything and the steps are a death trap, work a treat last year when the snow turned to sheet ice over night. Also used it on the drive last year over nearly sliding into the car opposit the drive.

As for using a DSG in the snow try letting the crawl and anti-stall do some of the work until you have enough forward motion to apply a little extra gas.

Though I do live in the south so snow/ice is never that bad, last year the Octavia ever got stuck in the snow or ice, but I cant say it was fun driving it either.

Edit to add: just spent the weekend at my bro's house - he's up in yorkshire and we had a bit of snow - his drive is also pretty steep. I always park facing UP the slope, that way you can use 2nd gear if you need. Its also a good idea to chuck some salt just infront of the wheels or scrape away in front of the tyres before you try to drive out - that way you don't compact the snow (which will then turn to solid ice..)

You can't pull away in 2nd in a DSG, the software doesn't allow it

Why would one want to pull away in 2nd????, a fallacy I have challanged before

Let the DSG do its stuff.

Despite my ****e Bridgestone tyres( & Hankook winters on order) I find the DSG to be good in the snow, it actually seems to hold first for longer* if it can not get traction,(is this the ESP at work?)

If one insists in "starting" in second gear, one is either trying to spin the tyre faster (therefore more likely to spin) OR slipping the clutch unecessarily?? Per my simple agricultural bred brain.

*Holding D1 noted when in a car park today where I was "acting the lig",.

Plus the DSG is simply excellent when manually overidden to downchange when slowing at a junction, without braking.

Cheers

M

Ps

a new tail lamp cluster is only £55 +VAT

Edited 29 November, 201015 yr by dieseldogg

Generally all the safety-net electronics work fine irrespective of which direction you're travelling in. IIRC its because they need to work even if you're spinning..

That makes sense for ESP but I don't think it applies to traction control. If the traction control on my car was working while I was trying to reverse up the drive then it was pretty ineffective and no lights were flickering.

n.b. traction control and esp are separate systems.

I was trying to differentiate between the traction control systems in ESP and ASR. ASR just reduces engine power to stop the wheelspin, ESP has EDL which brakes the spinning wheel. The ASR system is pretty scary if you are making a quick take-off into a gap in traffic but on my limited experience to date it is much more effective on compacted snow that EDL.

Thanks very much for your comments folks - much food for thought.

Beginning to think my problem is tyres - my current 17" wheels have wider tyres (Bridgestones) than my old 16"s (Hankook) . As I said before the old 1.9TDi just reversed out of the drive in all the weather that last winter threw at us - only had to clear away the worst of the snow if it was more than an inch or 2.

Even just letting the anti-stall get the DSG moving still caused wheel spin and the front to slew across. Even after I had scooped away 90% of the compacted stuff this morning the darned thing slid around on the compacted patches I had missed.

This is my first automatic. Never had any problems in snow with manuals - front or rear wheel drive - I think I just need some practice with the new car and probably some winter tyres.

Good news is that just got a text from swmbo - the street has just been gritted. Or at least "a gritter has just been along the street" - thing is they use our street to turnaround after reaching the Leeds/Bradford border: sometimes they forget to turn off the grit but mostly not :(

Why would one want to pull away in 2nd????, a fallacy I have challanged before

Incorrectly,presumably.

If one insists in "starting" in second gear, one is either trying to spin the tyre faster (therefore more likely to spin) OR slipping the clutch unecessarily?? Per my simple agricultural bred brain.

No. Faster top speed yes, but slower acceleration, so less likely to spin.

Thanks very much for your comments folks - much food for thought.

Beginning to think my problem is tyres - my current 17" wheels have wider tyres (Bridgestones) than my old 16"s (Hankook) . As I said before the old 1.9TDi just reversed out of the drive in all the weather that last winter threw at us - only had to clear away the worst of the snow if it was more than an inch or 2.

Even just letting the anti-stall get the DSG moving still caused wheel spin and the front to slew across. Even after I had scooped away 90% of the compacted stuff this morning the darned thing slid around on the compacted patches I had missed.

This is my first automatic. Never had any problems in snow with manuals - front or rear wheel drive - I think I just need some practice with the new car and probably some winter tyres.

Good news is that just got a text from swmbo - the street has just been gritted. Or at least "a gritter has just been along the street" - thing is they use our street to turnaround after reaching the Leeds/Bradford border: sometimes they forget to turn off the grit but mostly not :(

Living in a country that sees months of snow every winter I can tell you that you are indeed on track here, if you excuse the analogy. There is no way around winter tyres if the snow has hit you. They are made completely different than summer tyres, both with regard to rubber substance and carvings.

Where the tyre hits the surface your otherwise round wheel is for a few centimeters flat. Imagine this flatness to be a claw that is grasping on to the surface. If the surface is made up of snow, ice or both the claw would need completely different capabilities than on a warm summer day on asphalt. The rubber on a summer tyre is quite soft. When winter strikes the cold will make the tyre stiffen, and all it's nice qualities will stiffen up with it. A winter tyre is made in a very different composition of rubber that supports cold weather performance, but then again has little to offer during spring and summer. Using winter tyres then will lead to your car loosing much of its grip and good handling.

So - in short - there is a good reason why there are different tires for different times of the year.

PS! There is such a thing as "all year" tires, but they are made for the warmer countries where snow, ice and degrees below are not part of their everyday life. Even during "winter".

Don't know if this was helpful, but you got it anyway :-)

I keep a small bag of sand on my trunk in winter to lay it in front of the wheels if really bad icy non moving conditions.

Big C

Sorry but after 35 years driving in any & all conditions i have never found the need to pull away in second, nor have I been beat or fustrated in my attempts until Sat evening past.

Nor can I fathom the physics of how attempting to start in a higher gear can give lower acceleration, and if slipping the clutch is the key, this is better done in a lower gear surely?, without unduly revving the engine.

I do appreciate that the applied torque at the wheel is inversely proportional to the gear selected, but by my reckoning that is not relevent, as in poor traction conditions a diesel will have too much torque in any of the lower gears, rather I figger that it is the least differential in of speed of tyre rotation against actual forward speed ( less %age slippage) that maximizes traction.

I modulate the acceleration with a light right foot, not my left foot, I have observed others spinning fruitlessly in circumstances where i have pulled away, i do not know what gear they were in but they apparently thought that sufficient engine revs were key to progress.

This is obviousley only a generalization, as the other drivers were unknown to me.

Cheers

M

PS

In a FWD reversing uphill SHOULD give better traction, according to der laws of physics, sometimes though reverse gear is a bit higher than first though ( & see above) plus the steering thing is a bit trickier.

But hey its more likely the tyres.

Double cheers

Edited 29 November, 201015 yr by dieseldogg

Different tactic last night - reversed into the drive. Tried immediately to pull out again - couldn't get out!

If I tried to let the anti stall crawl it out the wheels started spinning, the revs died and I started rolling back. Any more throttle and the front end slewed around getting perilously close to gate posts and 6" step. I now think that drive in & reverse out is the best option - I get a car length of no snow to get some momentum going.

2" of fresh snow overnight that had softened the compacted stuff. Dug out the drive to the tarmac and swept it completely clear. Drove out no problem to queue for an hour on the A65 trying to get to Otley - but that is another story.

Now 100% convinced that until I can afford some winter rubber I will have more digging to do! Meanwhile it looks like I will get plenty of time to get used to the characteristics of the DSG and 225 wide Bridgestones in snow.

Big C

Sorry but after 35 years driving in any & all conditions i have never found the need to pull away in second, nor have I been beat or fustrated in my attempts until Sat evening past.

Nor can I fathom the physics of how attempting to start in a higher gear can give lower acceleration, and if slipping the clutch is the key, this is better done in a lower gear surely?, without unduly revving the engine.

I do appreciate that the applied torque at the wheel is inversely proportional to the gear selected, but by my reckoning that is not relevent, as in poor traction conditions a diesel will have too much torque in any of the lower gears, rather I figger that it is the least differential in of speed of tyre rotation against actual forward speed ( less %age slippage) that maximizes traction.

I modulate the acceleration with a light right foot, not my left foot, I have observed others spinning fruitlessly in circumstances where i have pulled away, i do not know what gear they were in but they apparently thought that sufficient engine revs were key to progress.

This is obviousley only a generalization, as the other drivers were unknown to me.

Cheers

M

PS

In a FWD reversing uphill SHOULD give better traction, according to der laws of physics, sometimes though reverse gear is a bit higher than first though ( & see above) plus the steering thing is a bit trickier.

But hey its more likely the tyres.

Double cheers

Sure, I appreciate you must have a lot of experience in bad conditions having driven for that length of time, I'm merely disputing your "fallacy" point, and that it might in fact be a useful tip for those with less experience than you.

On my old DSG Passat there was a 'secret' snow mode - Turn off the ESP and put the car into Sport mode (whatever they call it on your version) and that locks the differential and the car no longer hops from side to side as it does with the ESP on, so it will now pull itself clear of a tiny wedge of snow and then straightaway it changes up into 2nd gear.

It was better than nothing, but I think in general, DSG is poo, and worse in the snow. It's possibly worth noting that on the 3.2l and 3.6l engined VWs there is a snow button on the transmission.

Different tactic last night - reversed into the drive. Tried immediately to pull out again - couldn't get out!

If I tried to let the anti stall crawl it out the wheels started spinning, the revs died and I started rolling back. Any more throttle and the front end slewed around getting perilously close to gate posts and 6" step. I now think that drive in & reverse out is the best option - I get a car length of no snow to get some momentum going.

2" of fresh snow overnight that had softened the compacted stuff. Dug out the drive to the tarmac and swept it completely clear. Drove out no problem to queue for an hour on the A65 trying to get to Otley - but that is another story.

Now 100% convinced that until I can afford some winter rubber I will have more digging to do! Meanwhile it looks like I will get plenty of time to get used to the characteristics of the DSG and 225 wide Bridgestones in snow.

I live not far from you, and attempting to drive anywhere but on the main road is a bit of a nightmare, luckily I only have to make it to the nursery and then train station. Even getting out of the nursery driveway is a pain, having to go uphill and over a small lip with very little momentum isn't fun.

I'd recommend getting some salt for your driveway from a hardware store if the council don't manage to refill the bin near you!