If you could be a doll and get me a date for that quote, along with a chart showing the oil price at the time as well as the current price trends, I might take your comments a little more seriously.

At the risk of repeating myself, again,

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/184308-fuel-price-stabiliser/page__view__findpost__p__2210350

Me too. 10:59PM BST 29 Apr 2010

Dear All,

I have just researched this vehicle on the Nissan website and elsewhere.

Who on earth would pay £29,000 (£24,000 with Govt discount) for this car?

How can it become Car of the Year, when it does not do what a car does?

It's a glorified milk float.

Who would buy one unless a complete lunatic or a Member of Parliament (probably the same thing)?

I have written to my MP, strongly suggesting that this money would be better spent on hydrogen fuel cell research or other non-polluting technology.

Be well aware that electric cars are NOT environmentally friendly if power stations are fueled by coal, gas. If nuclear fueled, what happens to the huge increase in nuclear waste that would be generated to power say, 20million electric cars, not to mention the toxic waste from disused batteries?

I would suggest that all Briskoda members email their views (some of you may want electric cars) to their MP's.

There endeth my first rant of 2011.

Have a good one.

Tony :(

I suspect you'll find quite a lot of people will buy one.

For a start it looks (and apparently drives) like a normal car and not an electric oddity like a G-Wiz.

A hell of a lot of people don't do more than 70 miles in a day so it's entirely practical for them to have a car that can take them to work and back and be charged overnight.

We could quite happily live with an electric car as one of our two vehicles with no inconvenience at all.

If you live in London and can save yourself even more money on the congestion charge it makes an even better case for itself.

Yes, we all know it's no good for people who do long journeys but that doesn't make it useless.

Fossil fueled cars are not the future, and neither are pure electric cars like this, but they are a very important step in moving everyone away from petrol and diesel.

30% have a drive 70% don't.

I don't think that drives are anywhere near that rare when you look at the country as a whole.

I'd expect it to be the other way round at least.

There appears to be a point being overlooked in this discussion - if electric cars become cheap enough for mass adoption in the near future then, as someone has already pointed out, government fuel duty revenue will massively decrease, therefore, while the price is high, governments can provide token discounts to make it look like they are encouraging purchases. But by providing a discount now, they are really buying time to ensure the price remains out of reach for most people when the manufacturing costs and retail prices reduce (if ever), thus ensuring that fossil fuel burning cars remain dominant and ensures tax revenue for many years to come.

The cost of Lithium and rare earth metals to provide the batteries will remain high for a looooong time due to increasing worldwide demand (ever wondered why we are really in Afghanistan? = Massive Lithium deposits originally discovered by the Soviets), so it's unlikely that prices of electric cars will come down significantly anytime soon, this provides plenty of years for governments to think of ways of taxing the masses to pay for the hole that will be created by the reduction of use of fossil fuels that will eventually come.

there is one thing that troubles me about all the electric cars.....lets say that today you want to travel 30 miles to visit someone.....that will take about 60 minutes, .....well it's cold out there....how do you keep warm?...is it possible to drive wrapped up in a duvet or a sleeping bag?

Am i the only person to think an Electric car as car of the year is a great thing.Just hope everyone goes out and buys one.(Keeps me in a job,(I work in a Power station)lol

Am i the only person to think an Electric car as car of the year is a great thing.Just hope everyone goes out and buys one.(Keeps me in a job,(I work in a Power station)lol

This is where the mass market is :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3085647.stm

Pricing for the Leaf definitely indicates that its aimed at the novelty/second car market for the rich.

So the set-up costs for this low a production volume will surely bring its Green aspirations inyto doubt

So hardly worthy of COTY.

Nick

I don't think that drives are anywhere near that rare when you look at the country as a whole.

I'd expect it to be the other way round at least.

Many of the North East's Ex Mining towns, are terraced houses, with no driveways... (newcastle, washington, ashington, seaham etc etc...) so i can see this figure being correct.

I can see the appeal, but also the problems with the electric car.

For my Wife, IF we had PV Cell's on our house, to charge the car, then it COULD be a viable option, but to add enough cell's, we would have to sped around £20,000's. - She travels a daily commute of 30 miles, round trip, so mileage is no real issue. BUT during the recent snow, there would be no energy being created, as the roofs have been covered in snow for many weeks.

BUT paying for electric from the grid, is an expensive way, and after-all, most of the energy we use, in the form of Elec comes from Fossil Fuels.

The problem i can see will arise in Low or High Temperatures. If my car is left outside (very rarely, it's usually garaged) I will start the engine, turn on the Heated Seats, Screen, Mirrors, and rear screen, not to mention the heated washers and SatNav - of course, as a waste product, heat from the engine is used as the car's heating - on the other score, what about Air Con? Where, if driving an Elec car, all of this power come from the battery, and what detrimental effect will this have on the claimed mileage? Of course, a battery, will generally run-out quicker at lower temperature....

For me, an Elec car is not an option, as i like many many others, drive long distance for work.

Maybe an Elec car, with a Swop-able battery could be an idea? - pull into a "fuel station" and swop out your battery, for a fully-charged unit, which can be later re-charged and re-used.

Going down the route of a "Hybrid" vehicle - Whats the point?! The "Eco" range of Skoda's can do better mileage!

It's just a few thoughts...

Many of the North East's Ex Mining towns, are terraced houses, with no driveways... (newcastle, washington, ashington, seaham etc etc...) so i can see this figure being correct.

I can see the appeal, but also the problems with the electric car.

For my Wife, IF we had PV Cell's on our house, to charge the car, then it COULD be a viable option, but to add enough cell's, we would have to sped around £20,000's. - She travels a daily commute of 30 miles, round trip, so mileage is no real issue. BUT during the recent snow, there would be no energy being created, as the roofs have been covered in snow for many weeks.

BUT paying for electric from the grid, is an expensive way, and after-all, most of the energy we use, in the form of Elec comes from Fossil Fuels.

The problem i can see will arise in Low or High Temperatures. If my car is left outside (very rarely, it's usually garaged) I will start the engine, turn on the Heated Seats, Screen, Mirrors, and rear screen, not to mention the heated washers and SatNav - of course, as a waste product, heat from the engine is used as the car's heating - on the other score, what about Air Con? Where, if driving an Elec car, all of this power come from the battery, and what detrimental effect will this have on the claimed mileage? Of course, a battery, will generally run-out quicker at lower temperature....

For me, an Elec car is not an option, as i like many many others, drive long distance for work.

Maybe an Elec car, with a Swop-able battery could be an idea? - pull into a "fuel station" and swop out your battery, for a fully-charged unit, which can be later re-charged and re-used.

Going down the route of a "Hybrid" vehicle - Whats the point?! The "Eco" range of Skoda's can do better mileage!

It's just a few thoughts...

Shirley (respect LN) hybrid comes into its own when the petrol/diesel part is a highly tuned, fixed RPM unit designed to recharge the batteries whilst in motion - modern electronics could be used to de-couple groups of batteries from the ouitput supply for re-charging and then re-instate when charged. This would reduce the individual vehicle requirement for batteries - 50% reduction might bring the purchase price within affordable limits. At a later date the highly tuned hydrocarbon engined could be substituted with a hydrogen fuel cell - only if the total life cycle economics where more economic. Remeber James May's choke mobile.

For those without drives, re-charging units attatched to any powered-street furniture e.g. lamp-posts (obviouisly not traffic lights) - how difficult to produce a kit with a wrap around fibregalss enclosure and the appropriate transforming kit inside ?

there is one thing that troubles me about all the electric cars.....lets say that today you want to travel 30 miles to visit someone.....that will take about 60 minutes, .....well it's cold out there....how do you keep warm?...is it possible to drive wrapped up in a duvet or a sleeping bag?

The amount of energy used in heating or cooling the interior isn't all that large compared to the energy used in actually moving it.

It's an 80KW motor so a 1KW heater isn't that large in comparison

Of course it will affect the range, but only by a few percent. Also, don't forget that if you leave the car plugged in to charge overnight you can also set the heater to work on a timer so it's already nice and toasty and defrosted when you get in it in the morning so all the heater will need to do is keep it at a constant temperature which isn't as much of a drain.

Shirley (respect LN) hybrid comes into its own when the petrol/diesel part is a highly tuned, fixed RPM unit designed to recharge the batteries whilst in motion - modern electronics could be used to de-couple groups of batteries from the ouitput supply for re-charging and then re-instate when charged.

That's exactly what they are doing with the Chevvy Volt and Vauxhall Ampera - a smaller petrol engine to keep the batteries topped up but not mechanically connected to the wheels.

Personally I think they have missed a trick by using a petrol and not diesel engine, but there you go....

Edited 4 January, 201115 yr by Dr Zoidberg

Shirley (respect LN) hybrid comes into its own when the petrol/diesel part is a highly tuned, fixed RPM unit designed to recharge the batteries whilst in motion - modern electronics could be used to de-couple groups of batteries from the ouitput supply for re-charging and then re-instate when charged. This would reduce the individual vehicle requirement for batteries - 50% reduction might bring the purchase price within affordable limits. At a later date the highly tuned hydrocarbon engined could be substituted with a hydrogen fuel cell - only if the total life cycle economics where more economic. Remeber James May's choke mobile.

For those without drives, re-charging units attatched to any powered-street furniture e.g. lamp-posts (obviouisly not traffic lights) - how difficult to produce a kit with a wrap around fibregalss enclosure and the appropriate transforming kit inside ?

The above would be called series hybrid, companies have tried it but merged onto parallel hybrid as its more beneficial.

Summery was the aim is to downsize engine for same output by using electric motors, in theory it works but in practice it doesn't (at least not for the people who tried).

As for recharge units. I don't think thats going to happen, people will get too tempted to lick it and see what happens :| (aka major safety and security etc issues)

Just read somewhere that a guy is selling his Lexus RX400h at 70,000 miles as the batteries need replacing at a cost of £5K (not sure what the age of the vehicle is). It will be interesting to see the stats of the hybrid vehicles where batteries are now reaching end of life, they have been around long enough for people to be moving them on now. Does anyone know the life expectancy of the batteries in the Leaf? Is it 10 years (regardless of mileage)? And what the replacement charge will be?

Just read somewhere that a guy is selling his Lexus RX400h at 70,000 miles as the batteries need replacing at a cost of £5K (not sure what the age of the vehicle is). It will be interesting to see the stats of the hybrid vehicles where batteries are now reaching end of life, they have been around long enough for people to be moving them on now. Does anyone know the life expectancy of the batteries in the Leaf? Is it 10 years (regardless of mileage)? And what the replacement charge will be?

10 yrs or 100k. thats quite optimistic imo, esp when they're planning to run the batt's at nearly full whack. They are however doing two things: 1) keeping their batt specs a secret, either because its a new discovery on technique and don't want other companies to imitate or they are simply lying their butts off (I've calculated the ratings from given numbers and it seems little far-fetched numbers for current battery specs!). 2) LG (makers of the batteries) says they patented a reconditioning li-ion technique which they will be using on the Volt apparently..

Edit: sorry thought you was talking about the Volt no idea about leaf, but I assume its similar.

Edited 4 January, 201115 yr by JLneonhug