Hello everyone,

Appologies if this has been covered already but I couldn't find anything conclusive with the search.

I've recently bought a MK1 Fabia VRS but can't help noticing the fairly hurrendous amount of understeer it has, especially in the wet. It's got some relatively new budget tyres fitted at the moment, which probably aren't helping the matter so they are being swapped out for some Continental SC2's within the next few weeks. Is there anything else that can be done to increase front end grip?

It's my daily driver so certainly not looking to fit coilovers and want to avoid lowering too, unless it's going to make a world of difference.

Thanks in advance

Craig

Some decent tyres made a world of difference on mine. That is the best thing you can do really for front end grip.

The next best handling mod is probably a RARB, how much that will help front end grip though, I don't know.

Although it is a small car, you do have a heavy diesel lump. It's bound to be front heavy, however to help with the understeer many have put a rarb on. A few have rated it as the single most important mod for the fabia.

2 brands: Jabba and Whiteline.

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Priority 1 - Replace the Yingtong Ditchfinders with something half-decent (or Contis which will be decent down to 3mm, and then turn into ditchfinders).

Priority 2 - RARB. This doesn't increase front grip so much as reduce rear grip, but that gives you a better handling balance, which is what you really want.

Then fit Powerflex or Superpro console bushes as these make a BIG difference to the handling....allows the inside front tyre to remain in contact with the ground on corners.

Then keep the OEM springs and fit Koni FSD dampers....the best!!!! Automatic two stage damping, without lowering the car, or screwing up the comfort!!!

Can't speak about the benifits of a RARB as don't have one, and don't need it, car oversteers perfectly if I want....mind you I have a lighter engine!!!

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll get the tyres sorted and go from there. Unsure which to go for - the Continental SC2's or Michelin PS3's..?

The console bushes - where are these exactly? Is the front subframe referred to as a console?

Thanks again for the advice

The console bushes - where are these exactly? Is the front subframe referred to as a console?

Thanks again for the advice

The rear bush on the front wishbone is known as the console bush as it goes into the alloy console unit. The "subframe" is made up of three parts, two alloy console units (one either side) and a pressed and welded sheet steel main subframe!

I like pirelli p zeros and Michelin exalt pe2, now replaced with PS3.

Try slowing down more before the Corner then accelerate through it.

If you must add aftermarket parts then a jabbasport anti roll bar is all you need leave the springs/dampers stock.

Try slowing down more before the Corner then accelerate through it.

This ^^^^

Most cases of understeer are when drivers go too quickly into corners, and expect the tyres to be able to slow the car down and turn it at the same time. Of course it can do that to a certain extent, and it is possible to increase front-end grip through trail braking but at the expense of rear grip, but it is easy to ask too much of the front tyres.

This ^^^^

Most cases of understeer are when drivers go too quickly into corners, and expect the tyres to be able to slow the car down and turn it at the same time. Of course it can do that to a certain extent, and it is possible to increase front-end grip through trail braking but at the expense of rear grip, but it is easy to ask too much of the front tyres.

Agree with the above....."slow in fast out"...sort the speed/braking etc before the corner..trail brake through to apex (if needed), then power out....or go in slower and use the accelerator in a low gear to drive the car through the corner!!

Even so, setting up the suspension by altering the stiffness of the ARB's front and rear, the dampers, springs etc, can change the characteristics of the car...thus making it more prone to under or over steer.....VAG as with a lot of car manufacturers set cars up to understeer as it is "safer" for the majority of drivers.....also having a heavy diesel engine up front doesn't help.

But fitting say Koni FSD dampers and swapping the console bushes to SuperPro or Powerflex (these work in a different way to the Cupra bushes) will "firm up" the body roll and allow the tyres to maintain full contact though the corner without the inside wheel "hopping"....which results in a more neutral balanced car that can be under or over steered through the corner!!! Which is what we want!!

Thanks again for the replies guys. I'm fairly sure the main cause of the understeer is the budget tyres that are currently fitted. By no means am I saying I'm a driving god but I understand and feel what's going on. I picked up another set of standard wheels today which are getting refurbished next week with the new rubber too.

I've got the Pirelli P Zero Rosso's on my Silvia which I get on with but I'm swaying towards the PS3's for the Fabia. I'm sure they are all similar on performance though.

The ARB is something I would like to change at some point but why do people change only the rear and not both? Surely changing both would be the better overall option..?

There is no RARB as standard on Furbie (or Octy) mk1.

I'm not sure about the Furbie, but the Octy1 vRS has a heavier FARB than the normal models, which unbalances the front roll centre wrt the rear one (the vRS wasn't a launch trim of either model), and that causes understeer.

Lesser models have a 18mm front anti roll bar. Vrs is 20mm.

You can buy a 22mm front from eibach and kw.

Most people tend to fit the 23mm jabba rear or the 20mm whiteline rear. Whiteline also have a 24mm listed for the new polo. Both whitlines are adjustable. Jabba is fixed.

However im tempted to remove my jabba bar to see the changes now my driving style has changes.

The ARB is something I would like to change at some point but why do people change only the rear and not both? Surely changing both would be the better overall option..?

There isn't a rarb in the fabia as standard, so hence the understeer heaven.

Think its because the farb is really difficult to get it out, its also good enough until you spend more on suspension set-up. The popular route people take is rarb, bushes, springs and shocks, then farb and struts.

Oh right, I assumed they already had a RARB of some form. Do they often come up in discounted group buys? I'm certainly tempted by one but want to try it out in standard form first with decent tyres to see how it really handles. I've got another trackday booked next month too, which will be the ideal testing ground!

Edited 18 May, 201115 yr by craig8585

For the rarb you won't need a track to feel the difference for sure. Even driving little more than casual you'll feel the difference the rarb makes but people above are right, replace the ditchfinders and get a set which will help you stay on the road before any pushing of the car

Feb/11 was the last one for Whiteline rarb: http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/188166-fabia-whiteline-rarb-offer-end-10th-february/

Age old debate about whiteline vs jabba, some say jabba is more noticeable, some say its about the same.. very few who tried both preferred jabba (though i think they had jabba to begin with). Think its £130 vs £230 (~£100 more).

There isn't a rarb in the fabia as standard, so hence the understeer heaven.

Think its because the farb is really difficult to get it out, its also good enough until you spend more on suspension set-up. The popular route people take is rarb, bushes, springs and shocks, then farb and struts.

As per #12 above, uprating the FARB and leaving the rear standard will make the car understeer more.

Oh right, I assumed they already had a RARB of some form.

You are right....the rear one piece semi-trailing arm axle acts as a RARB...by the nature of it's design....the VRS one is stiffer (thick metal..and extra reinforcing) than the one for the other Fabias..this is because the VRS is seen as "sporty" had has the lowered suspension compared to the other Fabias.

Almost all front wheel drive front engine cars will understeer due to the basic design of a heavy lump in the nose (the engine)...with the added bonus that most car manufacturers set the cars up to understeer as it is seen as safer than oversteer!! Because of the heavy engine in the VRS, Skoda made the rear semi-trailing arm axle thicker so that it dosen't understeer any more than the plain Fabias.

Adding a Whiteline or Jabba RARB just increases the stiffness of the rear semi-trailing arm axle (the bar follows the shape of it, and is clamped to it) which then causes it to oversteer more. There is a downside to making the suspension more rigid across the axle....this is the increased risk of wheel hop and skip from the inside wheels when going around bumpy bends!!! Some people love the feeling of the rear inside wheel lifting up in the air......I prefer to keep mine in contact with the ground...where they should be!!!!

If it was me I would first get rid of the cheap tyres and get something half decent (I run Toyo proxes TR-1 for summer) Then make sure that the current supension is all ok. Then if you want to decrease the body roll around corners without affecting ride comfort then fit Koni FSD dampers with the OEM springs. Then, or before (maybe do it after the tyres) get rid of the rear bush on the front wishbone (known as the console bush) and replace with either the Powerflex or SuperPro version (These ones work in a different and better way than the Cupra version!) I couldn't believe the difference that these made when I fitted them (I previously had X bushes, which are another "upgrade"). This will then make the inside front tyre stay in better contact with the road.

Me...I wouldn't fit a RARB to my car (mind you I have a lighter engine) as I can get mine to oversteer very well at the moment...and if I did add one then it would oversteer even more to the point of being dangerous and leading to the inside wheel "cocking-up" way to much for my liking!!

Thought I'd pass on the info from the other side of the debate!!

Edited 21 May, 201115 yr by fabdavrav

Thanks very much for your post fabdavrav! It's interesting to hear different points of view too.

Going by what you have said and other posts above, I've already ordered the new Powerflex console bushes. I might also fit the Powerflex front lower arm bushes at the same time if the lower arm is going to be off the car anyway.

I'll leave the ARB for now and see how I get on with the decent tyres and console bushes. I'm going to get the alignment checked too as I don't want to ruin the new tyres, especially at £80 per corner. I'll take further mods from there, looking into the Koni dampers and possibly rear ARB at a later date.

I might also fit the Powerflex front lower arm bushes at the same time if the lower arm is going to be off the car anyway.

Fit the Superpro front lower arm bush as it is better designed than the Powerflex one..!!

Just to update this thread a little.. I ended up fitting Pirelli P Zero Nero's to the car which made a big difference, as expected. Then I went ahead with the powerflex console bushes. After fitting these the steering feels more positive and sharp but I'm unsure if it's greatly improved the handling.

Another update, looks like Whiteline do a front adjustable ARB for the Fabia now, 22mm.

Really enjoyed reading through peoples views on this subject, as a massive whiteline RARB fan I found looking into this before purchasing a Fabia VRS really useful.

At the present time I've had 3 clio sports 2x172s and a 182 trophy. Every Time I've added a RARB I've found the front end sharpens up, the rear stays more planted unless you really try to prevoke it then you can really get some tasty oversteer.

I'm guessing with the torque going through the front wheels you're possibly being a little bit heavy footed when going mid-corner, thus introducing the understeer with the car washing wide.

I'm not sure how the boost loads in on the Vrs yet but maybe try and be a little bit more progressive on both power and turn in, feeding more of both in gently through the bend, try not to accelerate from the beginning of the bend, get your entry speed down, point the car to the apex of the corner then begin to feed in the power progressively instead of just smashing the pedal to the floor with a nice clean exit.

I would think a RARB would help point the front end in the right direction. Only time will tell though as I should be getting my first fabia vrs in a few months and the first mod will be a RARB

If you really want to lose the under steer you will need rear wheel drive, or a good four wheel drive.

Sticking with the front wheel drive (remember this was designed to run familys to the shops).

Decent tyres are always to good start, and remember new tyres need a little 'running in' time, don't expect their best for the first couple hundred miles. A rear anti roll bar will help turn in, as someone has already said this really reduces rear end grip rather than increases front grip, but the effect is normally a good one. I don't know how stiff the Fabia chassis is but some cars really benefit from some bracing of one sort or another. Of course the biggest thing with a front wheel drive is getting the power on the road on the way out of the bend, this is where a limited slip diff will be worth it's weight in gold. Quaife ATB or similar will make a big difference but it comes at a bit of a cost.

One last thing, light wheels with the correct size tyres are important (Stock wheels and tyre size is a good start). These big heavy soft after market things that Halfords sell complete with the cheapest tyres known to man will only help you find the nearest ditch.

Really enjoyed reading through peoples views on this subject, as a massive whiteline RARB fan I found looking into this before purchasing a Fabia VRS really useful.

At the present time I've had 3 clio sports 2x172s and a 182 trophy. Every Time I've added a RARB I've found the front end sharpens up, the rear stays more planted unless you really try to prevoke it then you can really get some tasty oversteer.

I'm guessing with the torque going through the front wheels you're possibly being a little bit heavy footed when going mid-corner, thus introducing the understeer with the car washing wide.

I'm not sure how the boost loads in on the Vrs yet but maybe try and be a little bit more progressive on both power and turn in, feeding more of both in gently through the bend, try not to accelerate from the beginning of the bend, get your entry speed down, point the car to the apex of the corner then begin to feed in the power progressively instead of just smashing the pedal to the floor with a nice clean exit.

I would think a RARB would help point the front end in the right direction. Only time will tell though as I should be getting my first fabia vrs in a few months and the first mod will be a RARB

First place to start with improving the Fabia's handling balance, a RARB. Regardless of tyres (assuming all four the same) as they merely change the limits. The RARB will improve turn in and load up the rear reasonably in the corner, plus it'll prop up the front-inside corner meaning you get more drive out of slower corners or junctions.

If the OP wants to remain on standard spring, I think he should look for GBs on the Whiteline. OTOH, get the Jabba AND the Whiteline adjustable front.

The 1.9TDI is a bit of a turbo-torque monster, it's difficult to modulate the power delivery precisely and immediately as you can try to do in an NA car.

J.