Well, the tesla will be 160 mile range from a single charge for 45k or 240 miles for 52k

Too expensive and without a back up wouldn't even get me to cornwall. :wonder:

Cheers

Lee

In my experience when senior managers say might happen is a softening of the blow. I suspect the top of each model range could have a diesel option up to the superb or its replacement which will have a full choice.

Leaving those on a tight budget to have to choose between petrol engines.

Perversely as more and more people worldwide move to diesel petrol as a bi-product could become cheaper in relation to diesel.

In my experience when senior managers say might happen is a softening of the blow. I suspect the top of each model range could have a diesel option up to the superb or its replacement which will have a full choice.

Leaving those on a tight budget to have to choose between petrol engines.

That's what they do at the moment don't they? the TDI being the flagship of most of the Skoda range compared to the TSI equivalent in elegance spec - bar the 3.6 4x4 Superb

If you look at the Fabia at the moment there is a diesel option for all the variants from the 1.6CR 75/90ps for the S to the 1.6CR 75, 90 and 105ps for the Elegance/Scout.

In the future I suspect the Fabia or its replacement may not have a diesel option or only a diesel for the top of the fabia range.

The change could extend across the model range excluding the top model where the profit margin is much greater.

Only way they can meet the current regulations on emissions across the board is by including diesels, D... I see nothing which will change that, they'll still have diesel Fabias in the future, both economy versions (where petrol can't touch it) and above. As long as diesels are 20%+ more efficient in real life driving conditions they'll still make 'em and we'll still buy 'em... Petrol still has a long way to go. Hydrogen may be the way forward if they can sort out a cheap way of producing it.

Black, there's always a shortage of diesel around this time of year as its virtually the same stuff as heating oil and they are all filling up their tanks...

Edited 25 October, 201114 yr by The PM

Yes...as is being said there is going to be a swing to petrol for very small cars, but I reckon by a much smaller amount than we probably believe. The TSI type engines are brilliant and nice to drive compared to normally aspirated engines. But here's another and probably one of the most important reasons for the change being smaller than what the manufacturers spokemen are predicting. I think we are all forgetting the government targets on CO2 reduction. Inspite of an increase in car numbers on the road over the last decade, there has been a small but significant drop in CO2 coming from motor vehicles. This we are told is due to the large uptake of diesel cars that on average produce between 40-60% less CO2 per journey compared to it's petrol counterpart. Around 40% (can't remember the exact figure so correct me if I'm wrong) of CO2 produced in this country comes from vehicles. One gallon of petrol produces nearly 24lbs of CO2. Diesel engines produce massively less CO2 per journey due to the extra thermal efficiency of the engine. So while diesel with it's slightly higher calorific value produces more CO2 per se, on an actual journey your diesel car will produce an average of maybe 50% less CO2 due to the considerable extra miles you will get to the gallon. If everyone converted to diesel this country would overnight meet it's CO2 reduction figure and reduce oil imports by a huge amount. The problem with petrol is you can't change the laws of physics. Petrol engines just produces much more carbon dioxide and always will and although the new petrol cars will be doing more miles per gallon they just wont' touch the new diesel engines especially the ones in the pipeline, for either miles per gallon or CO2. Take that into account and the fact that diesels are not going to cost anywhere near as much as is being projected in this thread and in some articles you read (and don't forget petrol engines will need some major tech to pass euro 6-7 too which all costs) and that leads me to think it's all hype. Again, just my take on it.

Edited 25 October, 201114 yr by Estate Man

Do Kawasaki not already supply the US military with dieselised motorbikes, to comply with their very sensible "one battlefield" fuel policy.

When a diesel motorbike is commercially available I might even buy one.

I hate that petrol stuff......well except for the chainsaw.

It's not reducing CO2 that the diesel is struggling with it's the reduction of Nitrous Oxide NOx and Hydro Carbons HC+NOx

Euro 6 and the next Euro 7 will hit Toxic gases and pollutents which is mainly a diesel problem.

For diesel Euro 6 reduces NOx from 0.180g/km to 0.08g/km a 56% reduction and HC+NOx from 0.23g/km to 0.17g/km

For petrol Euro 6 NOx is the same as Euro 5 at 0.06g/km and there are no figures for HC+NOx.

So petrol engines haven't needed anything to reduce toxic gases for Euro 6 and will easily meet Euro 7 with tighter control of injection systems and Ecu improvements.

Diesel engines have needed complex improvements for Euro 6 but most small units have managed to avoid the dreaded additive route. Maunfacturers have said further reduction in toxic gasses and pollutents can only be met by scrubbers and/or chemical additives. My own thoughts are it will be at this stage when diesel will become too expensive for the supermini market.

As always the market will decide and will be determined by the price differential between petrol and diesel engines and the priced between petrol and diesel and the pumps.

Cheers

Lee

i for one am seriously considering a electric car or a hybrid as the cost of owning a petrol or diesel vehicle will rise astronomically over the next few years, we are now slowing down on usage of fossil fuels due to the global downturn but once the far east get the bit between there teeth again, the cost of fuel to the northern countries will just go off the scale, its been forcasted that a barrel of oil will reach $200 - $300 that will push the cost of fuel at the pump by 70-85% and we will be paying £2.70 a litre for diesel and £2.35 for petrol the forcast is 2018 so we need to think out of the box when it comes to my next purchase

I would be more than happy if there was an electric vehicle around that had a 250 mile + range & didnt take 8 hrs to recharge.

I really cannot see the point of a hybrid, as it still uses fossil fuel & which magazine managed to prove that in everyday driving a BMW320d is more economical than the Prius , and a lot more fun as well.

The only hybrid that seems to make any sense is the Chrysler VOLT, as it uses an engine as a generator for the batteries, however some one must have left their brain cell at home & got it drastically wrong ( IMHO) by putting a petrol engine in instead of Diesel - arent virtually all generators Diesel ?

I will wait for the hydrogen fuel cell car as that seems to be a complete system & not part & part systems that hybrids are

It is not a seasonal issue. Per barrel of oil you get so much diesel and so much petrol, you can not have one without the other. So if everyone goes diesel the petrol becomes depressed, at the moment petrol cargoes are heading to America. If they switch over to Diesel then that route will dry up and petrol will become even cheaper. There is a critial mass of oil burners in Europe that will take years to reach the scrap heap. That coupled with the advances in petrol tech will make a new diesel unatractive to most buyers. Small efficient petrol cars are the way to go, remember car manufacturers and oil companies work together so this is a bigger picture decision by VAG.

It's not reducing CO2 that the diesel is struggling with it's the reduction of Nitrous Oxide NOx and Hydro Carbons HC+NOx

Euro 6 and the next Euro 7 will hit Toxic gases and pollutents which is mainly a diesel problem.

For diesel Euro 6 reduces NOx from 0.180g/km to 0.08g/km a 56% reduction and HC+NOx from 0.23g/km to 0.17g/km

For petrol Euro 6 NOx is the same as Euro 5 at 0.06g/km and there are no figures for HC+NOx.

So petrol engines haven't needed anything to reduce toxic gases for Euro 6 and will easily meet Euro 7 with tighter control of injection systems and Ecu improvements.

Diesel engines have needed complex improvements for Euro 6 but most small units have managed to avoid the dreaded additive route. Maunfacturers have said further reduction in toxic gasses and pollutents can only be met by scrubbers and/or chemical additives. My own thoughts are it will be at this stage when diesel will become too expensive for the supermini market.

As always the market will decide and will be determined by the price differential between petrol and diesel engines and the priced between petrol and diesel and the pumps.

Cheers

Lee

I don't disagree with your main thrust at all Lee, but remember the new diesel fuels round the corner have in tests already cut NOx levels by some 20% in testing on commercials and cars. Removing remaining NOx to required levels shouldn't be that expensive. For scrubber read nox cat. There are combo units already fitted to some commercial trucks and they are not that expensive. Most small cars won't need anything very big either. I actually don't think the market will be the decider as such as nothing much is going to change in my view, just some new bits will appear on diesels and we'll all go on as ever. Obviously, prices go up all the time but I really don't see what Dr Whatsit is going on about concerning cost. I think he is being sensationalized by the press or he chose his word badly. But an interesting topic! :yes:

Edited 26 October, 201114 yr by Estate Man

I think he is being sensationalized by the press or he chose his word badly. But an interesting topic! :yes:

If it was just one saying it I'd be pretty dismissive but Ford, VAG and GM have all voiced similar views. We will have to wait and see.

Cheers

Lee